Snapped bars

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cycle tramp
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Re: Snapped bars

Postby cycle tramp » 10 Apr 2017, 7:26pm

foxyrider wrote:
cycle tramp wrote:Tell you what, I'll google the chap, on condition you book yourself for a recumbent test ride, perhaps its not just my eyes that need opening, eh?

You assume too much - done the cucumber thing, pretty useless for the riding I like to do and the terrain I live in. Much like trikes, they aren't for me.


You are right I had assumed too much, please accept my apologies.
Whilst there are all manner of straight, multi position, and curly steel bars, there are not too many different steel dropped handlebars on the market. Which does rather blow a large hole in my argument. After all its impossible to use steel components if the size and shape you want doesn't exist.
As for the names of cycling sport heroes, apologies for my ignorance, but I've never watched any sport on t.v. and to be frank don't intend to. However my own cycling heroes are Mike Burrows, Richard Ballantine, Tony Oliver, Anne Mustoe and John Grimshaw.

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Gattonero
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Re: Snapped bars

Postby Gattonero » 14 Apr 2017, 11:23am

PH wrote:
Gattonero wrote:No idea who Eddie Mercx is? Well, ok... put it this way, no other cyclist has won so many road races and he was so talented that would excell in grand tours, track racing, classic one-day races, hour record, and more.

It's way off topic but a shame when people can only see cycling in terms of sport. I cycle every day, around 10,000 miles a year, it's my main means of transport, I also ride round a few Audax for fun, 12 so far this season. Most of my holidays are awheel, tent on the back and off exploring and yet it seems I'm somehow a lesser cyclist because I don't follow the sport...


It is actually a shame when people cannot read between the lines and think outside the box.
Also, read the message entirely, and the following one, would help greatly in understanding how that was just an example of how steel can easily break in some circumstances....
Nevermind!
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...

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Gattonero
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Re: Snapped bars

Postby Gattonero » 14 Apr 2017, 11:28am

foxyrider wrote:
cycle tramp wrote:
Gattonero wrote:I'll never get tired of saying this: people does not know -or deliberately forgets about it- that the steel bike used by Eddie Mercx for his hour record attempt, was so light that is was believed it could break during the attempt, and Ernesto Colnago himself was on the track with an identical spare bike.


Sorry, no idea who this fellow is. Clearly though, the fact that you do, does indicate that we may see cycling from two different aspects... I view cycling as a mass transit solution for minor distances, as well as a useful piece of touring equipment.. Weigh therefore is not all important..how do you view cycling?


Think maybe an opening of eyes may be useful! Eddy survived his hour attempt, I saw him swigging a beer in Austria just last September!

I'm with Gattenero on the weight thing - weight does matter whether it's to get round a 200+km sportive or dragging camping gear over alpine passes - if I can do it lighter (within reason) I will.

So my sportive bike weighs a squidge over 7kg, what's not carbon is Ti - I think there are a few bits of aluminium around the wheels - I need strength and reliability. The tourer is 10.5kg, to go camping it gains another 7kg of bags and kit - this is down from my first weigh in ten years ago when I took a 12kg bike (I later shaved 4kg off that bike by changing things like seatpost and racks to lighter stuff) with 15kg of kit.

Oh i'm sure I'd do much the same rides on something heavier but given the choice i'll go for lighter - my lightest touring rig to date has been the 7kg carbon with a Ti rack and @ 5kg of luggage for a three week trip around Austria. (at @ £5k worth it was maybe a bit over the top but as the advert goes, i'm worth it!)

If I didn't think any part was up to my riding it wouldn't get onto my bikes, so i've got predominantly alloy bars (well they're oversize carbon on one bike :D ) one pair of Cinelli 64's were given to me in 1976 but the rest are fairly generic BBB or own brand stuff. All of the al bars weigh in between 330g and 280g (the 64's are 300g) The older '1"' bars tend to creak a bit but the oversize bars don't, a combination of stiffer bars and larger clamp areas with the front load stems. Interestingly, the 64's are clamped in a Shimano Dura Ace stem and donce suffer from the creaking of other similar bars i've got on bikes.


You are right, it's not about counting every gram, but when you have a bike that is 5-7kg lighter with the same reliability, goodness me what difference that is. Surely, you always need the legs, but I don't see why giving myself unnecessary pain.
And of course, this will cost some money. Well, I do like and I do care about my bicycles, so I put money on it although I am certainly not "rich" or "middle class" by any means! I simply call it "priorities", I cut a lot of expenses I don't deem necessary, so I can buy a better and lighter bicycle 8)
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...

PH
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Re: Snapped bars

Postby PH » 14 Apr 2017, 11:57am

Gattonero wrote:It is actually a shame when people cannot read between the lines and think outside the box.
Nevermind!

No sorry, it's not thinking outside the box, it's refusing to accept there is one, it's your box not mine. The idea that because someone rides a bike they should have heard of a sporting personality form a couple of generations ago and that you question that they haven't shows that you put all cycling in that very small box. The reality is the vast majority of cyclists are likely to have never heard of Eddie Mercx let alone have any thing in common with his sport.

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Gattonero
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Re: Snapped bars

Postby Gattonero » 14 Apr 2017, 12:04pm

PH wrote:
Gattonero wrote:It is actually a shame when people cannot read between the lines and think outside the box.
Nevermind!

No sorry, it's not thinking outside the box, it's refusing to accept there is one, it's your box not mine. The idea that because someone rides a bike they should have heard of a sporting personality form a couple of generations ago and that you question that they haven't shows that you put all cycling in that very small box. The reality is the vast majority of cyclists are likely to have never heard of Eddie Mercx let alone have any thing in common with his sport.


The problem is not that you don't know who Eddie Mercx is, but that you still don't get that it was just an example not strictly related to road racing or whatever could be.
It was about a steel bike, made so light that would weight less than 6kgs, so it was prone to break.
If you read between the lines, it says that any material may not last forever depending on circumstances.

p.s., if "my cycling box" was small, I would not have road bikes, mountain bikes, touring bikes, track bikes, bmx and planning to buy a Christiania cargo trike :)
Honestly I see a lot more people putting themselves in a box like "heavy touring bike or nothing!" and been horrified by anything that is made out of alluminium or -devilish word!- carbon.
p.p.s., most of my bikes are made out of steel, and I do not own a carbon bike, nor I race road bikes! :wink:
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...

PH
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Re: Snapped bars

Postby PH » 14 Apr 2017, 12:14pm

Gattonero wrote:The problem is not that you don't know who Eddie Mercx is, but that you still don't get that it was just an example not strictly related to road racing or whatever could be.
It was about a steel bike, made so light that would weight less than 6kgs, so it was prone to break.
If you read between the lines, it says that any material may not last forever depending on circumstances.

I get that entirely, if I don't get anything it's the relevance. A sports bike was made so light that it might not last an hour... I don't get what that's possibly got to do with anything I might buy? I started this thread with a request for peoples recommendations for what to look out for when replacing my snapped straight bars. If your advice is not to buy the ones Eddy Mercx used for the hour record, thanks, but really they hadn't made it to the short list :wink:

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Gattonero
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Re: Snapped bars

Postby Gattonero » 14 Apr 2017, 12:20pm

What to say?
Then carry on thinking that steel is immortal.
With an attitude of denying the properties of some materials, is not going anywhere. No need for recommendations then, just buy the heaviest bars you can find and be happy with it.
Last edited by Gattonero on 14 Apr 2017, 12:21pm, edited 2 times in total.
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...

Brucey
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Re: Snapped bars

Postby Brucey » 14 Apr 2017, 1:21pm

hamster wrote: ....Unsurprising they failed. That knurled area in the centre is a series of crack start sites. Appalling design and an accident waiting to happen. Sympathy for the OP, people should not be sold garbage like this.


I agree it is a poor design. I have seen quite a few set of similar looking bars break. Worryingly some have (I think) been cracked on the inside from the moment they were made. Most of the others did indeed look as if the crack had started at one of the knurling/grip lines.

BTW the argument about steel bars and Eddy Merckx seems bizarre and pointless to me.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

cycle tramp
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Re: Snapped bars

Postby cycle tramp » 14 Apr 2017, 3:17pm

Brucey wrote:BTW the argument about steel bars and Eddy Merckx seems bizarre and pointless to me.

cheers


Apologies, I think I started that one! I really must remember to post less and spend more time cycling :-)

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mjr
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Re: Snapped bars

Postby mjr » 14 Apr 2017, 9:57pm

Gattonero wrote:You are right, it's not about counting every gram, but when you have a bike that is 5-7kg lighter with the same reliability, goodness me what difference that is. Surely, you always need the legs, but I don't see why giving myself unnecessary pain.

Funny that you should mention pain. The reason I've toured on my heaviest bike is that it's the most comfortable. Sure, I could save a few kilos by using the road bike, but I can save about the same energy by careful luggage choice including aerodynamics... and it's not a mountain race anyway so aerodynamics and tyre choice and above all comfort win anyway.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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cycle tramp
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Re: Snapped bars

Postby cycle tramp » 14 Apr 2017, 11:07pm

mjr wrote:
Gattonero wrote:You are right, it's not about counting every gram, but when you have a bike that is 5-7kg lighter with the same reliability, goodness me what difference that is. Surely, you always need the legs, but I don't see why giving myself unnecessary pain.

Funny that you should mention pain. The reason I've toured on my heaviest bike is that it's the most comfortable. Sure, I could save a few kilos by using the road bike, but I can save about the same energy by careful luggage choice including aerodynamics... and it's not a mountain race anyway so aerodynamics and tyre choice and above all comfort win anyway.


I heartily agree! I tend to cycle with the attitude that I'll get there when I get there. :-)

nigelnightmare
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Re: Snapped bars

Postby nigelnightmare » 15 Apr 2017, 11:15am

PH wrote:
mjr wrote:
PH wrote:That's a track bar

Is that calling any steel drop bars "track", like Wiggle do?

No, it's what the manufacture calls it as it’s a specific track design and the wrong shape to fit standard levers to, just google (or the search engine of choice) Nitto B123
Had it been fitted by someone who hangs off a long-handled hex key until it moves no longer (because you want the bars as tight as can be, right? :roll: ) rather than using a torque wrench?

No, it'd been fitted by me with a torque wrench.


I'm sorry BUT do you know how to use a torque wrench properly? :shock: (most people don't) :shock:

I only ask because looking at the photograph the knurling/ridges seems to have been flattened by the clamping pressure of the stem in places,(inverted V shape)
denoting either over tightening or a poor fit/design (stem or bars) allowing the bars to flex too much causing localized crushing.

I've never liked bars with knurls/ridges at the clamping point as this leaves less contact area for clamping and introduces stress points. Poor design.

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Re: Snapped bars

Postby PH » 15 Apr 2017, 11:48am

nigelnightmare wrote:I'm sorry BUT do you know how to use a torque wrench properly? :shock: (most people don't) :shock:

I only ask because looking at the photograph the knurling/ridges seems to have been flattened by the clamping pressure of the stem in places,(inverted V shape)
denoting either over tightening or a poor fit/design (stem or bars) allowing the bars to flex too much causing localized crushing.

I've never liked bars with knurls/ridges at the clamping point as this leaves less contact area for clamping and introduces stress points. Poor design.

You're possibly right, it was a long time ago, new bars will be triple checked, though they are of the same design (Nitto), ordered before such criticisms were posted.

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Gattonero
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Re: Snapped bars

Postby Gattonero » 16 Apr 2017, 7:55am

mjr wrote:
Gattonero wrote:You are right, it's not about counting every gram, but when you have a bike that is 5-7kg lighter with the same reliability, goodness me what difference that is. Surely, you always need the legs, but I don't see why giving myself unnecessary pain.

Funny that you should mention pain. The reason I've toured on my heaviest bike is that it's the most comfortable. Sure, I could save a few kilos by using the road bike, but I can save about the same energy by careful luggage choice including aerodynamics... and it's not a mountain race anyway so aerodynamics and tyre choice and above all comfort win anyway.


Even my lightest bike is perfectly comfortable for me, I can spend hours and hours on my "racing" road bike. It's all about getting it right.
I.e., I have done the whole Norfolk coast with one gear and handlebars set very low, with a smile on my face: not counting the grams but low weight (fully loaded bike was about 15kg), well balanced and good wheels and tyres made for a great ride :)
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m136 ... cl7nsc.jpg
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...