A replacement for Mavic 'Open Pro' rims.

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JohnW
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A replacement for Mavic 'Open Pro' rims.

Postby JohnW » 12 Mar 2017, 3:41pm

There's a recent thread on the subject of a new Mavic 'Open Pro' rim. I ride 'Open Pro's exclusively at the moment (3 bikes); the downside is the low mileage that I now get from them compared with the previous Mavics, e.g. G40s and 'Open CD' - they give me about three fifths of the mileage of the earlier models, and about half the mileage of the (heavier) module 3.

The up-side of the 'Open Pro' is that I've found it to be responsive and lively and just as comfortable as the G40s and, as far as I know, just as strong. I find the current 'Open Pro' to have good braking qualities, and it is light in weight.

It appears that the new 'Open Pro' is not going to be available with 36 spoke holes. I will therefore not be using it.

In Forum members' experience and opinion, and in their knowledge, what are suitable alternatives?

fastpedaller
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Re: A replacement for Mavic 'Open Pro' rims.

Postby fastpedaller » 12 Mar 2017, 5:46pm

What about the Open Sport? A lot less expense, so you also recoup the loss of the mileage over the earlier rims. :D
Edited to say .. Open Sport changed to Open Elite last year.... so Open Elite?

tatanab
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Re: A replacement for Mavic 'Open Pro' rims.

Postby tatanab » 12 Mar 2017, 6:01pm

My Open Pros are all old ones, dating from 2003, so I have not suffered the intermediate ones with reduced rim thickness. For a similar profile I quite like Exal XR2 http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php ... 0s116p1567 and also have Ambrosio Excellight http://www.hewittcycles.co.uk/3892-ambr ... incher-rim

fastpedaller
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Location: Norfolk

Re: A replacement for Mavic 'Open Pro' rims.

Postby fastpedaller » 12 Mar 2017, 7:05pm

How about Mavic A319? A little wider, but a nice, double eyelet rim. How do they compare with A119? The way I see it A119 is the single eyelet version of A319 - but is it as simple as that? I ask because I've seen a good deal on A319 (£25) and wonder if it's worth the extra over A119 (£18) My concern is if the A319 has been made "lighter" by having the braking surfaces machined more than the A119. Note to add I'm aware that the A319 is heavier due to the double eyelets.Perhaps Brucey can enlighten me?


JohnW
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Re: A replacement for Mavic 'Open Pro' rims.

Postby JohnW » 12 Mar 2017, 9:00pm


Keezx
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Re: A replacement for Mavic 'Open Pro' rims.

Postby Keezx » 12 Mar 2017, 9:10pm

Ambrosio makes fine rims, but outdated design.

mig
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Re: A replacement for Mavic 'Open Pro' rims.

Postby mig » 12 Mar 2017, 9:43pm

Keezx wrote:Ambrosio makes fine rims, but outdated design.


'classic'

Brucey
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Re: A replacement for Mavic 'Open Pro' rims.

Postby Brucey » 12 Mar 2017, 10:21pm

fastpedaller wrote:How about Mavic A319? A little wider, but a nice, double eyelet rim. How do they compare with A119? The way I see it A119 is the single eyelet version of A319 - but is it as simple as that? I ask because I've seen a good deal on A319 (£25) and wonder if it's worth the extra over A119 (£18) My concern is if the A319 has been made "lighter" by having the braking surfaces machined more than the A119. Note to add I'm aware that the A319 is heavier due to the double eyelets.Perhaps Brucey can enlighten me?


IIRC A119 looks similar to A319 but it is actually a different extrusion, designed with a thicker inner wall so that single eyelets are adequate. I think that A119 makes a fine front rim but isn't always man enough for dished rear wheels that see heavy use.

cheers
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robc02
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Re: A replacement for Mavic 'Open Pro' rims.

Postby robc02 » 12 Mar 2017, 10:27pm

JohnW wrote:


Any experience anyone?


I've been using Ambrosio Excursions (the ones without machined sidewalls) for a few years on my winter commuter with 28mm Continental GP4 Seasons.
They build nicely and seem generally OK - good value too. I can't really comment on longevity because each rim I have replaced has been due to hitting potholes, not fair wear and tear! This has become the failure mode of my rims in recent years :roll: .

Brucey
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Re: A replacement for Mavic 'Open Pro' rims.

Postby Brucey » 12 Mar 2017, 10:59pm

H+ Son TB14 is pretty good (according to my chums that have used it) not dissimilar to the old Module 3 rim I think.

H+Son Archetype is an excellent rim; if it had hard-facing on the rims it would be 'near perfect' for much club use.

Spa stock some Kinlin rims that look interesting, but I have not used them.

The exal rims (LX17, XR2, XR3) are very good value but tyres are often a tight fit on them.

The rigida chrina is not unlike the exal rim but also has a patchy QA record

Raleigh sell an angular rim called 'Omega' which is not too heavy and is very inexpensive.

Mavic CXP 22 has been rebadged & modified to become 'CXP Elite'. This used to be a great training rim, with a thick braking surface, but the revised version has the (now standard) pathetically thin mavic braking surface. Even so it is not bad value; it is only a little bit heavier than the current Open Pro, is stronger, and ought to last at least as long. Tyres are not a tight fit on this rim IME.

Mavic CXP33 has been rebadged as 'CXP Pro'. This was a good rim in its day, same thin braking surface now I think.

Mavic MA3 was revised (slight ERD change) to become 'Open Sport' and more recently again revised to become 'Open Elite'. This was a good training rim but now has the stupid thin braking surface.

Alex make some nice rims but they are not distributed with any vigour in the UK.

Ambrosio rims have already been mentioned.

DRC rims may be worth a look.

[edit; if you want a classic looking polished rim, the Velo Orange ones are worth a look. They remind me very much of the Rigida AL1320 and its larger (double-walled) siblings from back in the 1980s, but the VO ones are better made.]

However I would add that (with one or two exceptions) none of the above rims are quite as lightweight as an Open Pro, (most are around 470g to 510g) and nearly all of them are a different ERD. If you want to do a rim swap the Exal XR2 has an ERD that is nominally just one mm larger than an Open Pro, so provided your spokes are not already too short, £18 plus the time/money to rebuild will tell you if it is a rim that suits you or not; I think that the well isn't deep enough in that rim design, but I've not used it enough to know this for sure.

cheers
Last edited by Brucey on 13 Mar 2017, 9:35am, edited 1 time in total.
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Samuel D
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Re: A replacement for Mavic 'Open Pro' rims.

Postby Samuel D » 13 Mar 2017, 7:30am

I use the Exal XR2 rims and can confirm tyres are generally harder to fit than with other rims, probably because the well is shallow. If that doesn’t bother you too much, they’re good rims. £18 (at Spa) is impressively cheap considering the quality. They’re even made in Belgium.

They’re as narrow as rims get, though. And shallow.

mattsccm
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Re: A replacement for Mavic 'Open Pro' rims.

Postby mattsccm » 13 Mar 2017, 9:14am

But the colour! Black should be tyre tread, brake blocks and maybe cable outer.
Now that lovely Mavic grey was the whole point of the Open Pro

Samuel D
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Re: A replacement for Mavic 'Open Pro' rims.

Postby Samuel D » 13 Mar 2017, 9:24am

The Exal XR2s are available in silver, which is the only colour I’d buy!

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CREPELLO
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Re: A replacement for Mavic 'Open Pro' rims.

Postby CREPELLO » 13 Mar 2017, 8:25pm

Like a numpty, I posted about this subject on the other thread. As it's more relevant to this thread and Brucey posted an excellent response about metal hardening I thought I would post my initial post about an alternative rim (the Kinlin ADHN) and Brucey's response.

Keezx wrote:
23 mm Outer width and 17 mm inner is quite "normal" for aluminium rims, 19C rims are usually 25 mm outer.
The weight of app. 500 gr. does indicate a beefy rim indeed, might take some abuse and still not terribly heavy.
For a lot of people 17 mm inner doesn't mean a thing but it brings some small but significant advantages especially for heavier riders who appreciate comfort combined with good handling at higher speeds.
AFAIK the TB14 is pretty much the only classic looking rim with 17 mm inner width.
If you don't care about a classic look , then DT Swiss R460 is IMO the better choice.

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Crepello wrote:

My recollection would seem to be a bit faulty, perhaps partly based on the rim profile, which 'looks' shallow and wide.

Regarding comparable rims to the classic TB14 look, I've just found the Kinlin ADHN. http://hubjub.co.uk/kinlin-adhn-101-p.asp The Hubjub description says:

This is a medium width rim. The Taiwanese Kinlin is a shallow box section rim which my vernier caliper says is 23.5mm overall width. You got single eyelets. The finish is very good particularly the silver which has is very approperiate for retro builds. A great value substitute for the H Plus Son TB14, which we also do.

The real Kinlin edge is invisible but vital: the metallurgy. Know how people go on about the quality of things in the old days being superior to products available today? Thats often due to the quality of the metal. Kinlin uses T10 tempering on its aluminium: the most comprehensive of the internationally recognised heat treatment proceses. Result: stronger wheel, longer life particularly the braking surface. The inherent dimensional stability will also make your wheelbuilder happy.

Available in high polish silver or black. All versions have machined sidewalls
.


The heat treatment sounds reassuring. Brucey, care to comment?

Anyway, I've been looking to build a pair of classic touring wheels on a budget. Having started with a pair of highly polished Shimano XT M730 hubs (solid axle, £65 NOS), I didn't really want to spend £100 on rims, so compromised with the Mavic Open Elite. Ok, it's got a more '90's look and isn't high polished, but it would be a satisfactory compromise. The narrow profile would also suit my Dalesman, which I'd equipped with modern studded V brake shoes on the old AT50 wide profile canti's - they needed narrower a width rim at front for clearance.

Now that's all about to change, as I have bought a pair of the Kinlin's at £25 each, which with 1st class P+P at £3.50, seems a bit of a bargain to me. Hoping that the heat treatment and the high polish is as good as it seems. So now I need to see whether the brake shoes will get clearance between the fork and rim. Otherwise I'll need to revert back to shorter brake shoes for clearance.

Anyway, the 32mm Pasela's will sit better on the Kinlin's than the other narrow profile rims previously used.
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CREPELLO

Re: New Mavic Open Pro

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Post13 Mar 2017, 1:04pm
If anyone's interested, the braking surface of the Open Elite I've bought (and probably sending back to CRC) is around 1.5mm.
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Brucey

Re: New Mavic Open Pro

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Post13 Mar 2017, 1:40pm
I thought we were discussing alternative rims in another thread?

Anyway T10 heat treatment is defined as

Cooled from an elevated temperature-shaping process, cold worked and artificially aged



which probably means that the rim profile is extruded straight, cold rolled to the curve required to make a given rim, then cut, jointed etc before being artificially aged.

'Artificial aging' is meant to be carried out in an oven at about 200C in many aluminium alloys, but some cheeky sods claim 'artificial aging' has been carried out in some materials even though the ageing temperature is actually room temperature in that grade.

So a claim of 'T10' condition may mean different things depending on the grade used. In most 6000 series alloys it would be a proper heat treatment, but not in some other grades. It does not automatically confer particular properties on the rim.

BTW a suspicion is that some rim manufacturers have changed their manufacturing methods, resulting in rims that look the same as they used to, but are mysteriously softer during building (which those who lean on the rim to stress relieve might notice) and don't last as long because the softer material wears faster.

Several wheelbuilders have described Mavic's current offerings as 'a bit soft' and one (poor sod) showed me a CXP Elite rim that he'd pretzled during rim-pushing stress relief. I don't do it that way, (and that is part of the reason why) but in all fairness it isn't a loading condition that is very much different to that seen in use when you sprint hard out of the saddle.

cheers