Noisy Sturmey Archer 3sp

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Brucey
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Re: Noisy Sturmey Archer 3sp

Postby Brucey » 30 Oct 2018, 9:30am

it is easy to overdo it and any surplus will find a way out of the hub as you ride. If you use the wrong stuff or get the mix wrong the lube will separate and it will leak out when the bike is standing, too.

BTW the easiest way to lube any toggle chain SA hub is to use a grease gun (loaded with SFG) which has a pointed nozzle. No messing about with bits of hose etc.

For a top-up 10cc of lube is plenty in most hubs. Because a good grease gun meters out a fixed volume per stroke, you can be sure you have added the right amount.

cheers
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Mick F
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Re: Noisy Sturmey Archer 3sp

Postby Mick F » 27 May 2019, 9:55am

Mick F wrote:To dismantle:
Remove the cassette and dust cover.
Remove all of the LH side - nuts, cone, bearing cover and bearing.
Unscrew the ball ring having marked its original position so it goes back in the same orientation - (twinstart thread)
Pull out the internals.



I've produced a better and more complete set of instructions.
Fray Bentos pudding tin as a Special Tool. :D

CS-RF3 Sturmey Archer
Removing the Internals the Mick F Method


1. Remove all nuts, washers etc from both sides and remove the toggle.

2. Remove the cassette and any spacer and cover.

3. Fit the wheel in a bench vice horizontally cassette side up and hold it firmly by the LH axle flats.

4. Mark the position of the ball-ring and hub flange. This is done because the ball-ring threads are two-start and when replacing it, it needs to go back in the same orientation it came out. When screwing it back in, it’s a 50/50 chance to get it right first time. I used a centre-punch on the hub flange and a Dremel tool to mark the hardened steel ball-ring. Felt pen wasn’t sufficient, though paint blobs could work.

5. Fit the ball-ring spanner and lower the pudding tin over it, tightening it snugly with the washer and a wheel nut. Make sure that the spanner won’t slip off the lugs when under load.

6. Turn it all over and mount the spanner handle high up in the vice with the wheel off to one side. Make sure that the wheel will be free to turn without fouling the vice jaws etc.

7. Loosen the LH locknuts and cone a few turns.

8. Grip the wheel with two hands and turn it anti-clockwise. It will be tight, and may suddenly shift. I wear gloves as I have caught my knuckles in the past.

9. Remove the LH locknuts and cone completely off the axle.

10. Turn the wheel over and grip the LH axle in the vice.

11. Remove the nut, washer, pudding tin and spanner.

12. Remove the wheel from the vice and lower to the floor.

11. Use the spanner by hand to unscrew the ball-ring completely and then pull out the internals from the hub.
Mick F. Cornwall

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Gattonero
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Re: Noisy Sturmey Archer 3sp

Postby Gattonero » 27 May 2019, 10:07am

Agree with marking the position of the Ball-ring, but the rest seems a bit too complicated?
Usually, I slack the Lh locknut/cone by one turn then break the seal of the ball-ring thread with a centre-punch (which has been grounded to have a "D" tip to fit in the notches of the ball-ring) working in opposite points.
Once this thread is loose, the Lh locknut/cone get fully unscrewed and the ball-ring with the internals are removed and placed in a plastic tray (old Swarfega tubs are excellent for this).
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...

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Mick F
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Re: Noisy Sturmey Archer 3sp

Postby Mick F » 27 May 2019, 2:10pm

We know all about the Centre Punch Technique. :lol:

We used to call it "Hammer Mechanics" back in my day.
Get the correct tool for the job is better than using a hammer and a punch and I've worked how to do it properly.
Mick F. Cornwall

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Gattonero
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Re: Noisy Sturmey Archer 3sp

Postby Gattonero » 27 May 2019, 4:09pm

A hammer is actually one of the best tools in showing manual skills: the one that cannot distinguish between "tapping" and "smashing", is bound to make a mess regardless of the tool used.
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...

Brucey
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Re: Noisy Sturmey Archer 3sp

Postby Brucey » 27 May 2019, 5:23pm

FWIW if you get a set of service instructions that are the same age as many SA hubs, you will find that they stipulate that you should remove the ball-ring using a hammer and drift. No mention of stupid spanners that don't even fit most SA hubs that are out there and don't work very well in any case..... :roll: :wink:

FWIW Gatto's description is almost word for word the same as the method I use and has been posted here.

BTW if you forget to mark the ball ring or are installing a different internal/ball ring into the same hubshell, you can try the ball ring in the hub both ways and whichever way the ball ring screws in furthest is the correct way.

cheers
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Mick F
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Re: Noisy Sturmey Archer 3sp

Postby Mick F » 27 May 2019, 5:57pm

I repeat.

Mick F wrote:Get the correct tool for the job is better than using a hammer and a punch and I've worked how to do it properly.
Mick F. Cornwall

Brucey
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Re: Noisy Sturmey Archer 3sp

Postby Brucey » 27 May 2019, 6:02pm

the correct tool for the job, according to SA (and applicable to the vast majority of hubs they have ever made) is a hammer and drift.
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Mick F
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Re: Noisy Sturmey Archer 3sp

Postby Mick F » 27 May 2019, 6:21pm

They're wrong then.
Do it the Mick F Method.
Mick F. Cornwall

Brucey
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Re: Noisy Sturmey Archer 3sp

Postby Brucey » 27 May 2019, 6:47pm

how exactly? If you come across a SA hub of random age, it is over 90% likely to be one for which you can't (and never have been able to) even buy a spanner.

Anyway the spanner just slows you down;

a) it slips off too easily (as you have found)
b) it isn't long enough to loosen a tight ball ring
c) you can't use it without removing (and then later replacing) the sprocket, dust shield, circlip, spacers etc, which is not always necessary.

having a spanner also encourages you to use it when reinstalling the internal; this would be a mistake since it greatly increases the risk of cross-threading.

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Mick F
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Re: Noisy Sturmey Archer 3sp

Postby Mick F » 27 May 2019, 7:07pm

Wrong again on all counts.

It doesn't slip in the slightest using my pudding tin.
Buy the correct spanner.
It is held in a bench vice and you turn the wheel.
Why NOT remove the cassette. You can clean it! :D

You don't use the spanner to reinstall it, unless you want to tighten it, but I never mentioned reinstallation.

PS:
My routine is for the CS-RF3
I never mentioned any other SA hub.
Mick F. Cornwall

Brucey
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Re: Noisy Sturmey Archer 3sp

Postby Brucey » 27 May 2019, 9:12pm

everyone else is wrong then.....
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Mick F
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Re: Noisy Sturmey Archer 3sp

Postby Mick F » 28 May 2019, 7:11am

Brucey, I value you input on this forum greatly.

But I'm ONLY discussing the CS-RF3 and no other SA hub. It wouldn't work with the other hubs.
What you say is very true indeed if you consider the myriad SA hubs about in the world.
My way is simple and quick and foolproof for the CS-RF3.

BTW, you MUST take the cassette off to even get at the ball-ring with any tool or punch.
Mick F. Cornwall

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fausto99
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Re: Noisy Sturmey Archer 3sp

Postby fausto99 » 28 May 2019, 8:36am

Mick F wrote:Fray Bentos pudding tin as a Special Tool. :D


Drill hole first? Eat pudding before that ? :lol:

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Mick F
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Re: Noisy Sturmey Archer 3sp

Postby Mick F » 28 May 2019, 9:04am

Scoff the pud, keep the tin. :D
Excellent tins for storing stuff in the workshop, or filling with petrol or something to clean bits and pieces.
Even used one as a container in my sonic bath.

There are different sizes of course, and many these days are plastic so you can microwave the pud. I doubt a plazzy one could be used for the hub as it wouldn't be strong enough - not tried it though.

I reckon that any tin can could be used so long as it would go over the cassette carrier and be sufficient wide to fit the ball-ring spanner. Maybe modify a beanz can or a dog food can.

The one I have is steel and a Steak+Kidney pud.
3" diameter, 2.5" deep.
Hole drilled in the base and bent a bit.

Photo to follow.
Mick F. Cornwall