Noisy Sturmey Archer 3sp

[[XAP]Bob]

A MTB front trigger shifter mounted under the seat, on the inboard section of the USS...

It doesn't look great, but it's under the seat, so doesn't matter... sirry

[Brucey]

... Something smaller or better designed would be better.
I would like a bar-end shifter to go on the LH side, but I don't think 3sp indexed bar-ends exist.....

I'm pretty sure there is something; I'll take a look.

[edit there are a couple here

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-shifters-internal-hub/?page=3 but do check that the cable pull is compatible...]

cheers

[[XAP]Bob]

Cable pull is as per MTB front triple

[Geoff.D]

Geoff.D
[XAP]Bob

Can I ask you both, which shifter do you use for the SA?

The one I have is very chunky and clunky, and it's a bit big too. Something smaller or better designed would be better.
I would like a bar-end shifter to go on the LH side, but I don't think 3sp indexed bar-ends exist.

This one is mine. I had to modify it a bit to fit on drops. It's an MTB front shifter £8 off eBay.

Mine is very much like the one shown. I just happened to have it in my box of bits. Like Bob it's mounted unobtrusively under the seat. I did wonder, at first, if a friction lever would be OK with a SA hub, but it works fine. I've become used to knowing where it should be in its everyday position in 2nd gear. Changing up or down has become a matter of feel (when in motion) and position relative to the bars (when stationery), much like all friction shifters. If I ever get round to it I might swap to one of the modern SA 3 speed click shifters, but it's not a priority.

[Mick F]

Thanks Brucey.
I went down that road, and asked SJS about the likely ones and if they'd work.
Sadly, no.

It needs an MTB triple front shifter.
What I want, is a neat and simple one that will fit drops.

Fitting a friction bar-end is an option. I feel that the tolerance of the cable pull isn't so picky like in the old AW 3sp days. For instance, try as I might, I can't find the "neutral" gear between 2nd and third.

[[XAP]Bob]

Don't think there is one in modern 3 speeds....

3 and 1 are easy - it's the position for 2 that needs to be accurate... if you aren't engaging the pawns fully then it could be doing damage inside

[Mick F]

... if you aren't engaging the pawns fully then it could be doing damage inside

This is my concern.

If I had straights, there's a wide variety of shifters available. Drops have a bigger diameter.
My modification for the MTB shifter had me pulling the whole thing apart and scratching my head.

I put it all back together with a decent bolt to hold it together properly, and opened the clamp right out. I ditched the securing bolt, and took a narrower longer one, bent it, then inserted it using a nut at the other end. From underneath, it looks horrible, but from the top, it looks fine.

My only issue with it, is that in second gear, the lever is in line with the 'bar top, and stops me from having a good hand position on the tops. Basically, it's in the way ............ but conveniently placed. It works very well indeed, though chunky and clunky. Just not ideal.

[AM7]

Don't think there is one in modern 3 speeds....

3 and 1 are easy - it's the position for 2 that needs to be accurate... if you aren't engaging the pawns fully then it could be doing damage inside

I've got a couple of sets of Shimano bar end shifters, and the LH 'front' shifter isn't indexed but it does a clear indent in the middle position. I guess you could set up 2nd gear to that position, then friction shift to fully loose for 3rd and fully tight for 1st?

I have seen several reports online of people using frictions shifters for 3 speed hubs, so it must be possible - in theory at least (unless they are inadvertently doing irreparable damage to their hubs of course )

[Brucey]

Fitting a friction bar-end is an option. I feel that the tolerance of the cable pull isn't so picky like in the old AW 3sp days. For instance, try as I might, I can't find the "neutral" gear between 2nd and third.

There is no neutral with modern SA 3s hubs. However that does not make the requirement for accurate gear selection any less; these hubs do break when they are not correctly set.

I agree with an above post, if you can find a friction bar end shifter with a central detent, that ought to be ideal.

cheers

[Geoff.D]

Don't think there is one in modern 3 speeds....

3 and 1 are easy - it's the position for 2 that needs to be accurate... if you aren't engaging the pawns fully then it could be doing damage inside

I've got a couple of sets of Shimano bar end shifters, and the LH 'front' shifter isn't indexed but it does a clear indent in the middle position. I guess you could set up 2nd gear to that position, then friction shift to fully loose for 3rd and fully tight for 1st?

I have seen several reports online of people using frictions shifters for 3 speed hubs, so it must be possible - in theory at least (unless they are inadvertently doing irreparable damage to their hubs of course )

I've positioned my friction shifter so that the end of the lever is exactly over, and central to, a specific point on the handlebars when in its halfway position. I use this fixed point as my reference. In its arc of movement, the end of the lever can only be at this point once. It's at this reference point that I've set my 2nd gear accordingly.
Changing up and down is then fully loose and fully tight.
It seems to work OK. But, with the warning from Bob above, perhaps I'll switch to the proper shifter sooner rather than later.

PS
Bob.....if I'm not engaging the pawns fully, am I in danger of being outmanoeuvred and falling into checkmate too quickly?

[[XAP]Bob]

Yep, and no chance to queen any pawls you use (stupid autoscrewup tried it again)

[Mick F]

................Gear oil is highly recommended.
BTW there was no leakage.

I managed a 20mile ride early this morning, but found the back brake squealing a tiny bit.

Just looked and felt the spokes, and a few of them have gear oil on them.

[Brucey]

................Gear oil is highly recommended.
BTW there was no leakage.

I managed a 20mile ride early this morning, but found the back brake squealing a tiny bit.

Just looked and felt the spokes, and a few of them have gear oil on them.

this (rather than no leakage) is more what I'd expect to happen with oil inside. In the current SA 3s design, once oil reaches the ball ring bearing, there is nothing much to hold it inside the hub; there is no lip or whatever, usually just a slotted plastic dustcap.

In the non-cassette versions it is possible to install earlier parts in some cases which improve oil retention. However using a semi-fluid grease is probably the way ahead. You may need to experiment to find the best consistency for your hub/usage.

BTW the smaller wheels (plus the big hills...) will tend to centrifuge the lube out of the hub more than with a big-wheeled machine that doesn't see such high speeds.

cheers

[Mick F]

I'll put up with it for now.
I took the wheel off and gave it a good cleaning.
The rim is concave sectionally, and there were small pools of oil collecting in a couple of areas plus a coating all round.

Had I been able to have bought a 28h hub, I'd have used the existing Moulton rim ........... very convex. Had I done this, the oil would have been all over the tyre and brakes.

At least this way, there was a "reservoir" to collect it.
The rim cost a fiver secondhand ............ a good buy methinks.

[Mick F]

Found these shifters.
Sunrace do a LH indexed 3sp.

http://www.sunrace.com/en/products/detail/slm96