material qualities

[mig]

what is it inherently in (mainly frame) materials that give them charateristics such as 'spring' or 'stiffness.' atomic structure?

i have just abandoned an alu frame and built up a 531. same components, wheels, seat, everything. the ride is totally different.

[[XAP]Bob]

Psychology - and design.

[meic]

and design.

and they need different designs because they have different material properties.

Aluminium frames have to be made more rigid because otherwise they will fail through fatigue too quickly.

[[XAP]Bob]

Yes - but the point is that you can build frames with varying properties in various materials.

Fatigue limit is one limitation on Al designers.

[Spinners]

i have just abandoned an alu frame and built up a 531. same components, wheels, seat, everything. the ride is totally different.

Describe to us the difference.

[mig]

i have just abandoned an alu frame and built up a 531. same components, wheels, seat, everything. the ride is totally different.

Describe to us the difference.

well the alu frame had seen some action and had gone from a carbon fork (that cracked) to a 501 fork. it still rode like a plank of wood over rough surfaces - of which there any many in manchester. the exposed cables would make a drilling noise against the frame when ridden over cracked sections of tarmac and the saddle would hit me hard in the harriss over anything bumpy. i've probably ridden it a maximum distance of 60 miles at any one go but i did find it unusually tiring compared to a 631 frame, a max frame and a tange frame.

the 531 job seems to 'giv'e under both the strains of acceleration but also over the same areas of broken road. the frame passes less road buzz up into the seat and hence is quieter. it's like a feeling that the wheel rims are flexing more to accomodate the bumps.

it has been a long time since i rode a 531 frame (a motorist trashed my last in the mid 1980s) and it has been a very positive experience for what is a second hand frame.

[Spinners]

i have just abandoned an alu frame and built up a 531. same components, wheels, seat, everything. the ride is totally different.

Describe to us the difference.

well the alu frame had seen some action and had gone from a carbon fork (that cracked) to a 501 fork. it still rode like a plank of wood over rough surfaces - of which there any many in manchester. the exposed cables would make a drilling noise against the frame when ridden over cracked sections of tarmac and the saddle would hit me hard in the harriss over anything bumpy. i've probably ridden it a maximum distance of 60 miles at any one go but i did find it unusually tiring compared to a 631 frame, a max frame and a tange frame.

the 531 job seems to 'giv'e under both the strains of acceleration but also over the same areas of broken road. the frame passes less road buzz up into the seat and hence is quieter. it's like a feeling that the wheel rims are flexing more to accomodate the bumps.

it has been a long time since i rode a 531 frame (a motorist trashed my last in the mid 1980s) and it has been a very positive experience for what is a second hand frame.

I'm mainly riding aluminium nowadays and can identify with a lot of what your saying! I used to be firmly in the 'steel is real' camp but I'm a bit more open-minded nowadays and I'm having an extended go on aluminium mainly on a Giant Defy with a CF fork. Overall, it's not too bad and a good fit too.

[MikeF]

Yes - but the point is that you can build frames with varying properties in various materials.

Fatigue limit is one limitation on Al designers.

Varying?

[[XAP]Bob]

Well they vary as they approach failure :p

Various

[MikeF]

Well they vary as they approach failure :p

or should it be ?

[Gattonero]

Psychology - and design.

Not at all for the first.

Design and materials of the tubing would play a part as much as frame design and fit to the rider