Bottom bracket problem & saddle clamp fixed

[Graham]

My ongoing clicking problem remains unresolved.
I have not dared to try Loctite on the AC-H BB yet.

However I spotted a "new" type of Campag square taper BB which thought might be worth a try.

AC-H alongside Centaur

The new, Centaur one appears to have the bearings outboard of the sleeve.
Although there is a seal on the cups I hope that this does not move it into External BB vulnerability.

One good sign is that the cup(s) are a very tight ( near interference (?) ) fit - by contrast to the AC-H where the left-hand cup slides on/off very easily.

This is a 110 mm BB. Do be aware that there are different versions of 110mm Campag BBs with different chainlines. This information is not made available by Ribble or other online retailers as far as I can see.

[Mick F]

The top one is the Record type.
The bottom, the Veloce type.

I have the top one as a Chorus in my Mercian, but had the bottom one in the past too.

The top one with the visible bearings is maintainable and you can fit replacement bearings.
The come apart without too much work.
I have a thread on here about it.
I'll try and find it.

As for "different", Mr Campag talks about symmetrical and asymmetrical ............ but that only refers to Italian frames. My Chorus BB is described as asymmetrical when it plainly is not. The Veloce one is described as symmetrical when it plainly is not!

My chorus BB is 111mm and fits a Chorus Triple ........... but on an old fashioned steel frame. I couldn't possibly comment on a modern frame requirements.

[Keezx]

The top one is the Record type.
The bottom, the Veloce type.

I have the top one as a Chorus in my Mercian, but had the bottom one in the past too.

Top one is the Centaur model which is similar with the former Chorus with alu sleeve, only black.
Bottom one is an Kinex made cartridge BB (with Campa alloy cups)

[Des49]

My ongoing clicking problem remains unresolved.
I have not dared to try Loctite on the AC-H BB yet.

I use a Campag Chorus bottom bracket, mine dates back a long time maybe well over 20 years. The inner sleeve slides into both cups a little too easily, no force is required.

As a consequence I also get some clicking every now and then, I am convinced it is due to movement between cups and sleeve. What I do is dismantle it and liberally smear the sleeve/cup interface with really thick marine grease. This cures it for a good while. By the time it starts clicking again it is probably good practice to give the whole bike a rebuild in any case.

As it happens I noticed a little click on a ride this morning! Small price to pay for what must be the best and certainly longest lasting BB I have ever had. Hope saying that hasn't jinxed it!

[Graham]

Thanks Des, that is useful.
It could be that I have stored, 5, used, AC-H, BBs that aren't really worn out at all !!

( . .. . which doesn't say a lot for the design . . . )

EDIT : Thinks ! . . . . perhaps this is where the unusual property of colloidal cornflour ( custard ) could provide a solution ????

[Graham]

Dammit . . . . still not resolved.

The initial install of Centaur bottom bracket revealed that the non-drive-side (NDS) could not be torqued up to anywhere near the 70Nm without the axle rotation becoming unreasonably stiff. I left the cup where it appeared to have only a marginal effect on freedom of rotation.

I tested for a few hundred miles like this and the clicking gradually returned. ( Whilst making sure that the crank bolts and chainset bolts remained tight. )

I reassembed with Loctite on :-
BB cups to BB shell - both sides
BB cup to BB cartridge on the NDS
The drive side cup appeared to be a non-removable fit on the cartridge. **

A few more hundred miles - the clicking has returned.

Dismantling
** The NDS cup eventually came off whilst still glued to the rest of the BB cartridge. I left the DS cup in place, in the frame.

Dare I try Loctite on this fourth surface ? i.e. between the cup and the cartridge on both sides ?
Is there a chance that the whole lot will stay glued together for ever resisting all efforts to dismantle ?

Possible Solutions :
A) Get a new Stronglight triple chainset and a Shimano BB ( with a good structural steel cartridge ) and try that in the frame.

B) Send the frame away for a repair & a respray. Pity that Chas Roberts is out of action . . . for it is one of his.

PS. No I did not try the colloidal custard.

[Brucey]

if there are parts that now have a questionable fit, may I suggest a little strategic use of PTFE tape? This can be used to help cups that are not a great fit in the frame, and to help the cartridge when it fits into the cups if necessary. This certainly can help with diagnosis (initially, a joint with PTFE tape in it is extremely unlikely to creak) and if it lasts longer than that, it can be an acceptable 'cure' in some cases, in that it might get you going again pending a more permanent repair of some kind.

BTW I don't know what you have done elsewhere exactly but I have lost count of the number of 'creaky bottom brackets' that turned out to be something else, e.g. chainring bolts or pedals.... in both cases

a) the parts can creak even when they are not directly loaded and

b) being tight isn't enough; the joint needs to be dismantled, cleaned, and lubricated where appropriate.

cheers

[hamster]

I have had creaking problems on my Campag BBs, probably made worse by them being in a titanium frame. Plenty of copperslip not only between the cups and frame but bearing and cup seems to do the trick.

[Keezx]

Teflon tape did the trick for me in my titanium frame.
Tighten the left cup until the axle starts to bind.

[peetee]

perhaps this is where the unusual property of colloidal cornflour ( custard ) could provide a solution

But filling a swimming pool full of it and running over it is much more fun!

[Gattonero]

On those Campag BB's, for the Lh cup I would not recommend to exceed 20-25Nm in most cases.
Assuming the frame threads are fine (not sloppy), a medium-grade Loctite on the frame and cup threads will do the trick. Put grease inside the cups, lots.
Also check you "hidden" bolt on the Rh crank. Make sure is done to 7-9Nm and with medium Loctite, it has the bad habit of coming undone.
And sometimes, there's no other solution than rpelacing the chainring bolts. Yes, even if they fit nice (not sloppy, not tight)

[Des49]

Dammit . . . . still not resolved.

That's a shame.

I took out, regreased and refitted my BB yesterday as a little creak had re-appeared, Must be almost a year since I did it last.

The cups are pretty loose, especially the LH one, both are easily removed with fingers. The cups screw into the frame pretty easily too.
I use either some Mariner marine grease (the blue tube) or this time some Castrol heavy grease, the warm day made it easier to apply!
I grease the threads on cup and frame, plus liberal greasing of the inside of the cup and sleeve.

All seems well again and hope for a long time.

Send the frame away for a repair & a respray. Pity that Chas Roberts is out of action . . . for it is one of his.

It is a pity. The frame for the BB above is a Roberts, resprayed through Roberts a few years ago, they sent it to Colour Tech. But I find the paint very fragile, it chips or flakes off to reveal the white undercoat. Next week I may well be dropping off my Roberts racing bike to C&G in Liverpool.

[Graham]

Thanks all.

I'll give the Teflon tape a go first.

Thanks also for the revelation of a BB problem with a Campag & Roberts frame combination. At least I know I'm not alone.

PS. The problem for me is CLICKING rather than CREAKING. This may or may not be significant.

[Graham]

Dare I try Loctite on this fourth surface ? i.e. between the cup and the cartridge on both sides ?
Is there a chance that the whole lot will stay glued together for ever resisting all efforts to dismantle ?

Ahem, . .. using threadlock on the drive side might have been a BIG mistake.
I cannot get the drive-side cup out. It seems to be tightly glued and the BB tool is starting to mash the indentations on the cup.

Of course, trying to put high torque through such a tool means that it wants to jump away from the cup.
Is there any way of improvising a construction to hold it into position ?

PS. Teflon tried & thick grease tried . . . .. still clicking

[Brucey]

there is usually a way of rigging up a bolt, spacer and big washer to hold a BB tool onto the BB itself. However if you wish to weaken the bond of threadlock, heat is the thing to use; most threadlocks weaken appreciably at 150C or so, but you don't have to guess, you can look up the spec and check.

cheers