Puncture proof your tyres - is this is a good idea?

[mnichols]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_phPq3uzUtU

I've often thought about taking a little tube of sealant on tour and squirting it inside the tube before repairing the puncture through the hole. Any thoughts on this? something like this: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/stans-no-tubes-tyre-sealant/.

So I wouldn't do it before the puncture, but in the event of a puncture to help ensure that the hole is fixed and help with further punctures for the rest of the tour - and then replace the tube when I got home, or I guess I could put it in before leaving home and replace the tube after a few months

[mattsccm]

Well it works with tubeless tyres and I have used it to reduce gradual leaks with latex innered tubs so it may work but somehow (no proof) I would have thought it would be better already there when the puncture happens as with Slime inners. Have the gut reaction that it would penetrate the hole better with air pressure behind it. You could create that o inflation but it somehow doesn't seem asclikely. Prove me wrong though and I'll try it.

[MikeDee]

They've made Slime inner tubes for a long time. Slime works better than latex based sealant in tubes. Stuff like Stans dries up in a few months whereas Slime will last a couple of years. Slime has fibers in it that seal the hole better under high pressure. Unless you're getting a lot of flats, I wouldn't use any sealant in inner tubes. It adds a lot of rotating weight. If you don't care about weight, a tire like the Schwalbe Marathon is almost flat proof. I've run over many a goat head thorn, and have yet to flat. It has good rolling resistance too.

[Gattonero]

Just put the kevlar strips inside the tyre, they work well and tough not completely "proof" you need some really bad luck to get a puncture, at that point it's likely nothing could have helped.

Best puncture-proofing is to carry a pump and a spare tube, you know what happens the day you decide to leave them home...

[Abradable Chin]

they work well and tough not completely "proof" you need some really bad luck to get a puncture

Except, the bad luck occurs the moment you fit the kevlar strip. The step at the ends provides an edge for your inner tube to rub on. Sometimes , the strip doesn't even stay in place, so you have all the risk and no benefit. Better that the strip be moulded into the tyre in the first place.

[Gattonero]

they work well and tough not completely "proof" you need some really bad luck to get a puncture

Except, the bad luck occurs the moment you fit the kevlar strip. The step at the ends provides an edge for your inner tube to rub on. Sometimes , the strip doesn't even stay in place, so you have all the risk and no benefit. Better that the strip be moulded into the tyre in the first place.

That strip is adhesive and has no sharp edges....
I speak for several dozen installed.

And on my Mtb's I use the Geax ones, has been 13 years without punctures

[mnichols]

I thought that most modern tyres had a puncture proof strip built in?

[Abradable Chin]

That strip is adhesive and has no sharp edges....
I speak for several dozen installed.

You've can't have ever seen a Slime tyre liner, then.
Here's an image. It's not self-adhesive, and you can even see the square-cut edge. I wonder what on earth you've been using for 13 years?

[Gattonero]

That strip is adhesive and has no sharp edges....
I speak for several dozen installed.

You've can't have ever seen a Slime tyre liner, then.
Here's an image. It's not self-adhesive, and you can even see the square-cut edge. I wonder what on earth you've been using for 13 years?

Those are evil, they are hard and heavy. I was referring to the Panaracer ones.

My favourite are those, this is the real deal, proper Kevlar:


There is also the Panaracer one, that is adhesive and is soft, available for cx/road bikes too

[Abradable Chin]

Thank you for your kind response; I apologize for being abrupt. I'd not seen those tyre liners before but they seem to get good reviews. I've taken a look on eBay, and they are more than I'd like to pay, and because of the adhesive, they can't be transferred from wheel to wheel. I can't help but think that that the same protection inside a tyre would generate less intra-layer sliding friction (which must be the worst kind), and therefore be a better prospect. I wonder what Brucey would have to say?

[Gattonero]

Thank you for your kind response; I apologize for being abrupt. I'd not seen those tyre liners before but they seem to get good reviews. I've taken a look on eBay, and they are more than I'd like to pay, and because of the adhesive, they can't be transferred from wheel to wheel. I can't help but think that that the same protection inside a tyre would generate less intra-layer sliding friction (which must be the worst kind), and therefore be a better prospect. I wonder what Brucey would have to say?

Depending on the tyres, you may use the Geax ones that are not adhesive so it can be a bit of a faff to put on, but they're very much fit&forget. They do get some dirt from the tyre/tube as the are slightly sitcky, but that helps in keeping them in place once they've been a little while with the pressure of the inner tube. The material does not seem to feel the age, 13 years I'm still using the same ones, must have been over 6 sets of tyres.
I've ridden lots over thorns, glass and so on, never had punctures even with the lightest Mtb tyres.
Yes they are expensive, and I suppose this is the reason they won't go during the production of tyres, there may also be a complication in the manufacturing process that prevents the use of such kevlar strip.
It is interesting to note that the Geax is a closed tape, so it's not unlikely you'll have to fold the overlapping ends. Being the material very soft to the touch, it does not cause friction with the inner tube.

The Panaracer tape is an open tape, so can be trimmed to get perfect fit.
However, it is a very soft material that does deteriorate with time, typically will start falling apart (cracks/gaps in the fabric) in one year.
Even tho, if this does save you from 4-5 punctures you've already saved the cost of new inner tubes, though Tip-Top patches are even cheaper
The time wasted fixing punctures cannot be retrieved, tho

Having ridden both the Geax and the Panaracer extensively, I can confirm that there is no detrimental effect to the ride, and bear in mind I'm rather picky with my bikes!

[mercalia]

I used to use tyre liners as they can be the best protection , but don't now as I found the ones I used moved around and scuffed all the rubber from the tyre inside showing in my case the Kevlar carcass ( I assume ) - didn't fancy the inner tube rubbing up against that.

[RickH]

My only experience of a slime inner tube was on the first or second day when I was riding LEJOG. The back wheel of one of the group I was with started spewing green stuff all over the back end of her bike. She checked the tyre, changed the inner tube (I think for a non-slime one) & that was the end of her punctures for the rest of the trip.

In my mind puncture proofing beyond that built into tyres seems a solution looking for a problem. Of course others may have a different view.

Since April 2008 I've just passed 26,000 miles logged (logs from Garmin bike computer), plus another few thousand or so prior to that when I started getting back into cycling in May 2007, mainly utility/commuting riding. The number of punctures caused by something penetrating the tyre have been few & far between - I can remember each one. I've had a few other pinch flats & a couple of heat/rim tape related ones too.

Early on, probably September 2007, I got a bit of wire stuck in the fairly new Schwalbe Landcruisers on the old MTB I was using exclusively at the time. Those tyres are still on the wheels & haven't had a puncture since. Their use had been a bit light & sporadic & the last 3 or 4 winters were swapped for studded tyres. My guestimate is they've done 2k+ miles (probably 1.5k of that before the log began in 2008).

After I got a "road" bike early in 2008, I ran 25mm Gatorskins for probably 5 1/2 years before switching to 28mm Grand Prix 4 Seasons. Between them they will have covered around 20k miles. I had 1 puncture in a Gatorskin in February 2008, by the look of it caused by unseen glass in heavy rain, which wrote off the tyre. The next, & latest, was in a GP4S in October 2015. I was riding a mainly off road route & there must have been a shard of bottle glass about 2cm long sticking up in a section of coarse gravel which impaled my rear tyre (at least it was easy to find! )

My latest bike has done a little over 500 miles, both on & off road, since February on 38mm Vittoria Voyager Hypers. No problems so far just a couple of the tiniest of nicks in the tread & I only saw those as I was removing the remaining rubber moulding spikes round the tyres.

The tandem accounts for most of the rest of the mileage & runs Schwalbe Marathons. Ironically, that has had 4 punctures, all quite close time wise - 2 definitely thorns (1 a slightly bizarre one stuck through the side wall but only caused a slow leak), the other 2 of unknown cause but at a similar time so I'm guessing probably thorns too. None since I replaced them in October 2015.

I don't go out of my way to avoid punctures - yes I will ride round obvious glass if it is safe to do so. On the contrary I will carry on riding when others are getting off & carrying their bikes through, say, a glass strewn underpass if the glass is obviously small flat pieces rather than sticky up bits. I don't check the tyres thoroughly on a regular basis. Things might be helped by the lack of flints (wrong geology) & less hedgerows (more dry stone walls) in these parts but I do wonder why some people have so many more flats.

(OT ...but then I always wondered how people managed to break chains & I had my first failure recently since I first started cycling in the mid 70s - I found that one plate of the quick link had broken & the chain was only joined on one side I don't know how far I'd travelled with it like that, I noticed it on a train having just ridden 7.5 miles to the station. I hadn't noticed anything riding the previous day, even with the 250ft climb in the last 1/2 mile to home).

[Brucey]

Thank you for your kind response; I apologize for being abrupt. I'd not seen those tyre liners before but they seem to get good reviews. I've taken a look on eBay, and they are more than I'd like to pay, and because of the adhesive, they can't be transferred from wheel to wheel. I can't help but think that that the same protection inside a tyre would generate less intra-layer sliding friction (which must be the worst kind), and therefore be a better prospect. I wonder what Brucey would have to say?

The loads and flexing that occur in a puncture proofing strip that sits inside the tyre are different to those that occur if the protection is built into the tyre, but they will still be considerable. A lot of materials simply won't cope with this treatment and will perhaps move, fall apart in use, and/or start to cut the inner tube up. If you can stop these things from happening, then it ought to be a workable scheme, albeit that it won't protect the structure of the tyre.

Any scheme whereby there is protection and/or sealant that is beneath the tyre carcass is (IMHO) fundamentally flawed in that the tyre carcass can (indeed, will) be damaged by anything that might give you a puncture. That the tyre deflates is obviously annoying, but very many things that penetrate the tyre also damage it and make it less likely not to fail in the carcass or go out of shape. Arguably if your tyres which are

- fitted with internal puncture proofing strips
- fitted with sealant
- fitted with slime tubes
- tubeless with sealant

etc are not also cut to ribbons, then maybe you didn't get much value out of your puncture protection, and maybe (notwithstanding thorns and flints) you didn't even need it anyway. On the other hand if the tyres are cut to bits, you may find that this limits the life of the tyres, and maybe you would have been better off with heavier tyres in which the puncture protection is built in to the outside instead; in these tyres it takes something more catastrophic to actually damage the carcass.

BTW I don't know of any detailed Crr measurements with internal strips vs other puncture proofing methods but I have always felt that they tend to make a fast tyre somewhat slower. It might be that one method retains more tyre performance but I don't know which it is.

Regarding the original thought, injecting sealant into a tyre through the hole would only work if you could (despite the dilatant nature of the sealant in many cases) push it in, i.e. by overcoming the remaining pressure inside the tyre. Once there is none, it isn't guaranteed that the hole in the cover will line up with the hole in the inner tube any more. Either way it may only be a subset of occasions in which the sealant could be applied as intended. Also, if it merely postpones a proper repair, then you have set yourself up for dealing with the gloop anyway, whilst having had relatively little benefit from it.

cheers

[aegelstane]

Surely it's time to reinvent [a more lively version] of the "solid" tyres which were on sale a few years ago.