Just a quick video of how I removed my bottom bracket fixed cup without correct tools

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gaz
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Re: Just a quick video of how I removed my bottom bracket fixed cup without correct tools

Postby gaz » 28 May 2017, 11:23pm

Well done that man. :)
There'll be tarmac over, the white cliffs of Dover ...

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Redvee
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Re: Just a quick video of how I removed my bottom bracket fixed cup without correct tools

Postby Redvee » 29 May 2017, 1:34am

Or a large bolt and two nuts and washers.

karlt
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Re: Just a quick video of how I removed my bottom bracket fixed cup without correct tools

Postby karlt » 29 May 2017, 7:24am

I used a crank puller as bolt and nuts and a freewheel remover as a washer very successfully recently.

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Gattonero
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Re: Just a quick video of how I removed my bottom bracket fixed cup without correct tools

Postby Gattonero » 29 May 2017, 7:49am

Bikehopper1 wrote:Video https://youtu.be/L5EJP4vR2-c


Good idea, but it works only on cups that are modestly torqued. In the video those look like being finger-tight.
If the cups are well done and/or rusty/seized, you will have the jaws twisting thus slipping out of the very thin flat surfaces of the BB cup.
Having undone some BB cups that required two men to get the job done, I can only be faithful to the LBS tool, though it's too expensive for the home mechanic and seldom use.

Like said above, two large nuts and washer can do the trick, but it works only with BSA threaded BB's, with ITA threaded you get the nuts coming undone
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...

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gaz
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Re: Just a quick video of how I removed my bottom bracket fixed cup without correct tools

Postby gaz » 29 May 2017, 9:31am

Gattonero wrote:I can only be faithful to the LBS tool, though it's too expensive for the home mechanic and seldom use.

BITD Tacx made a home mechanic model.
Image
Sold mine on many years ago. If I'm taking out a fixed cup it's because I'm fitting a cartridge BB. Bolt and washer technique has worked just fine so far.
There'll be tarmac over, the white cliffs of Dover ...

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cycleruk
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Re: Just a quick video of how I removed my bottom bracket fixed cup without correct tools

Postby cycleruk » 29 May 2017, 11:31am

Sheldon Brown:-
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html
Scroll down to "fixed-cup tools".
You'll never know if you don't try it.

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Gattonero
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Re: Just a quick video of how I removed my bottom bracket fixed cup without correct tools

Postby Gattonero » 29 May 2017, 12:34pm

gaz wrote:
Gattonero wrote:I can only be faithful to the LBS tool, though it's too expensive for the home mechanic and seldom use.

BITD Tacx made a home mechanic model.
Image
Sold mine on many years ago. If I'm taking out a fixed cup it's because I'm fitting a cartridge BB. Bolt and washer technique has worked just fine so far.


Yes, I've seen those.
Good enough, though the one-side lever may be prone to twist.

IIRC, Cyclo used to make a two-handled one, similar to the Hozan?
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...

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robgul
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Re: Just a quick video of how I removed my bottom bracket fixed cup without correct tools

Postby robgul » 29 May 2017, 1:13pm

The video is using a clamp-on-the-bench vice - far simpler is to use a bench mounted engineers vice - clamp the flats on the fixed cup in the jaws with the frame on its side and then use the frame as the lever . . . works every time. (It also works on the adjustable cup side if you can't undo that BUT either clamp the threads between 2 bits of soft wood in the vice jaws or be prepared to crush the threads and sacrifice the cup)

Rob
E2E http://www.cycle-endtoend.org.uk
HoECC http://www.heartofenglandcyclingclub.org.uk
Cytech accredited mechanic . . . and woodworker

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Just a quick video of how I removed my bottom bracket fixed cup without correct tools

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 2 Jun 2017, 6:51pm

Hi,
Think it was Brucey said he had used 200 foot pounds of torque on a BB, must have big biceps :mrgreen:

When those old ones are rusted it will make you sweat, threw a frame away recently after giving up, it was a skip fram with no value to me.
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MikeF
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Re: Just a quick video of how I removed my bottom bracket fixed cup without correct tools

Postby MikeF » 2 Jun 2017, 11:36pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
Think it was Brucey said he had used 200 foot pounds of torque on a BB, must have big biceps :mrgreen:

When those old ones are rusted it will make you sweat, threw a frame away recently after giving up, it was a skip fram with no value to me.

I think you will find Brucey may have said 200 pounds foot of torque. :wink:
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

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willcee
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Re: Just a quick video of how I removed my bottom bracket fixed cup without correct tools

Postby willcee » 3 Jun 2017, 12:08am

some years ago when we had British regiments peace keeping over here, they mid or end of their period of duty had recourse to a weeks recreation organised locally at a Barracks ,a friend and great oldschool mechanic was on contract with the MOD to service and repair the fleet of half decent starter MTB's they had to hand.. this particular year they cycled to some of our great beaches about 4 miles from me and stupidly rode these yokes in the surf.. the next batch of squaddies to use them perhaps a month later complained about the creaking and cracking coming from the BB's and i was enlisted to help with sorting out 15/20 machines.. they were all old school cup and loose cage bearing type and practically every one of the fixed cups was seized tight..we employed all sorts of tactics ending up with a steel bar perhaps 5 ft long and a similar but shorter one on the other side using the bolt tool , we worked breaking sweat, cursing, listening to the squeaks of the tortured metal letting go and by jove we did a days work that day.. 200 lbs ft was exceeded many times with 2 strong guys on the bars, we didn't lose any threads on the brackets.. refitted them with cartridge brackets, and i never did see the MOD'S bill, there were other easier sorted issues as well...it would have made interesting reading!!. will

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Re: Just a quick video of how I removed my bottom bracket fixed cup without correct tools

Postby Brucey » 3 Jun 2017, 12:49am

FWIW I have been well over 400ftlbs when removing BBs.

I have used a 3/4" drive socket/breaker bar to drive various BB tools that are bolted through the BB shell. The limiting factor soon becomes the size of the frame; if it isn't very long you can't hold it very well, and stuffing long bars through the head tube needs to be done with some circumspection...

I built a special tool for an LBS near me, several years ago, when one of the mechanics reported struggling with a (shorter) breaker bar and an ongoing wrist injury. The tool I made is a two-handled tool over 4' long with a 1/2" drive set in the middle. 100ftlb merely requires about 25lbs at each end of the tool; it feels like nothing! I warned them that the 1/2" drive square would probably shear off if more than about 300ftlbs was regularly applied, and if that ever happened, I'd be able fix it, since I'd designed it to be repairable in this eventuality. Just today they reported that they had broken it; it took two of them 'swinging on it like chimps' to shear it off... but anyway I have some welding to do now...

Speaking of welding, that is my go-to approach to knackered steel cup BBs that are going for scrap and are stuck; the heat from MIG welding helps to break the bonds of corrosion and if you weld the right thing on, you can tackle it with the 3/4" drive breaker bar or indeed use a slogging (i.e. hammering...) approach on it (very satisfying...).

FWIW I think it doesn't really matter if you say ft.lb or lb.ft; it is a length multiplied by a load either way, isn't it?

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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531colin
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Re: Just a quick video of how I removed my bottom bracket fixed cup without correct tools

Postby 531colin » 3 Jun 2017, 7:19am

I don't know about the modern cups for loose ball bottom bracket bearings, they are very much made down to a price. (I had one make of bike where they were so soft that putting any torque on the flats just distorted the cups to oval....the only way to get those out was weld something to them.)
But the old stuff (Bayliss Wiley, TDC, stuff like that) was hard enough so that provided you had got one cup and the axle out, all you had to do was lie the frame down with the remaining cup resting on a biggish bit of timber, put a cold chisel through the Bb shell onto the inside face of the stuck cup, and give it a good crack. The cups were hard enough to shatter, and then you just pick the bits out.....on a steel frame, anyway. During a lifetime, I have seen two fixed cups crack and fail in situ; probably over-tightening the bearing was a factor.
The bench vise trick works much better if you arrange a big bolt so the thin cup flats can't slip out of the vise.

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Gattonero
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Re: Just a quick video of how I removed my bottom bracket fixed cup without correct tools

Postby Gattonero » 4 Jun 2017, 9:43am

robgul wrote:The video is using a clamp-on-the-bench vice - far simpler is to use a bench mounted engineers vice - clamp the flats on the fixed cup in the jaws with the frame on its side and then use the frame as the lever . . . works every time. (It also works on the adjustable cup side if you can't undo that BUT either clamp the threads between 2 bits of soft wood in the vice jaws or be prepared to crush the threads and sacrifice the cup)

Rob


The flats are barely 3mm thick, very easy to pop off the vice if you consider you're giving it a hard time with torque vs contact surface, the jaws WILL twist and the cup slips off with high risk of marking the frame.
Giving that a frame respray (or fixing a dent) is not a cheap repair, I'd say is better to buy a coffee to your LBS and have them remove it :mrgreen:

The proper tool like the Campagnolo/Cyclus/Hozan keeps the cup trapped in between the wrench outside and a screw-on barrel on the inside, so the cup has nowhere to go and can only give up. No other chance.
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...