Bike Builders in Hull

[resus1uk]

With my 1953 mixte Jackson were able to confirm it's age and the York Rally connection from the low frame number. So their records are good. Components were all 1980s when it was passed on to the original owner's daughter.

[StanleyMC]

Hi, I contacted the Bob Jackson team and their reply was “I have no idea what make this can be. I do not recall a frame just with “B” in the crown and top eyes.
Cottingham Cycle Center think it may have been made by Claud Butler, I have contacted CB but they have not yet replied, normally Claud Butler’s have the name everywhere.

I have been trying to check dates from the components, using mainly the Velobase info.

The front Shimano hub is marked C1 = September 1978
The rear Shimano hub is marked EJ = October 1980
The Rims are stainless steel and I think they are Mavic
The Suntour AR rear derailleur ZD = April 1983
The Suntour AR front derailleur YG = March 1982
The “Strong” really short seat post has no date,
neither has the Win 90mm stem.
The Silstar Cranks have 1 E, but i cannot find dating codes for Silstar.
There is number stamped on the side of the left crank arm that appears to have been put on after manafacturing:
DN 140JU
The Brake Levers are Hang Star ventilated, the logo looks like Wienmann copy.
The really skinny Mafac brakes are “Tandem” with no date, the braze on pivots are marked:
A for Avant (French) Front in English
AR at the back for Arriere, Rear in English.
So I guess the brake pivots where bought in from Mafac.
The Headset and Bottom bracket have no markings although they do appear to be of quality.
The Headstock has the number 78 stamped on it and this what made me think it could be 1978.
The number on the underside of the BB housing is
830284 and beneath this a 4 rotated 90 degrees to the left.
Whoever the first owner was she must have been very tall, I’m 6’2” and it is a stretch to reach the brake levers on the bullhorn handle bars.

For a bike that was supposedly built in Hull there are not many British parts on it.

[thirdcrank]

Here are some pictures of a Bob Jackson Mixte frame from the JRJ (Hyde Park Road) days. I think there's a fairly obvious difference in the quality of the lugwork. That frame seems to pre-date the one in question but I don't think that quality dropped over the years. I've a "Bob Jackson" frame from the Harehills Lane days - 1980 - which is roughly contemporary with the accessory dating given above. Bob Jackson was still running the business hands on: he discussed my requirements with me before passing me on to the framebuilder for a detailed choice of spec. At that time, so many bikes were being ordered for export to the USA that the waiting list was IIRC 14 weeks.

http://hilarystone.com/images/sale%20im ... womens.jpg

A popular Mixte bike of the "sports" type from the early 1980's was the Carlton Courette. I bought one for my wife although the tops of the seatstays were marked "CC."

I think this is a Claud Butler Majestique from the same era:

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/cyk ... anBn/?ref=

[Brucey]

re Mafac cantilever brakes. The 'MAFAC Tandem' and 'Mafac Criterium' models are very similar but the tandem model has longer arms.

The pivot to brake block bolt distance (C-C) is ~24mm on both models
However the arm length (pivot to cable fulcrum distance, C-C) varies

The criterium model has arms ~43mm long

and
The tandem model has arms ~48mm long


The difference is subtle unless you see the brakes side by side or measure them. BTW various of the fittings and markings on these brakes changed over the period they were manufactured, but I don't know of a definitive listing of when and how this model of brake changed that would let you identify the manufacturing date accurately. This page
http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/components/mafac1-comp.html and the following one have some details; the MAFAC logo changed over the years; I think yours is the final version.

Weinmann also made a version of this brake (using the MAFAC tooling after MAFAC had ceased trading I think) and these brakes have the shorter 43mm arms, so are 'criterium' copies.

As mentioned above I think you have the 'criterium' model but a quick measurement will verify if this is the case or not.

BTW the stamping on the crank is probably a security marking; DN14 0JU is a postcode in Goole

cheers

[thirdcrank]

Mention of Goole reminds me that I was once mending a puncture in a bus shelter in Thorpe Willoughby - not a million miles from Goole - when a lady riding a Carlton Courette stopped to check that I was OK. Definitely not six foot plus, BTW.

viewtopic.php?p=133870#p133870

[StanleyMC]

At you you have happy memories of Goole - Thirdcrank

Brucey,. The Postcode is apparently no longer in use, it ceased to be used in 1990, but it is not far of the mark as i bought the bike about seven miles away from there. I will try and contact the seller, maybe it was his previous address. But he was not very bikey, the other bike I bought from him had the
chain seized solid with rust and the chainwheels bent due to him trying to get the drive crank off with a hammer.

I agree my mafacs are probably Criterium, but Pivot to fulcrom CC is 36 mm, total length of the arm 52mm,the graphics on mine are as in the second photo, italic upper case. brake pads are still good and are Mafac. I will research Mafac, as you say the grafics should give some indication of age.

Ignoring the 78 on the headstock, the 83 as the first two numbers of the serial number could well be the year.

[Brucey]

I'm slightly baffled by your 36mm measurement.... are you sure that is right? I am measuring centre to centre.

Also I forgot to mention before, SIlstar is an SR (Sakae Ringyo) model. Somewhere on the interweb there is a reference for date marks.

cheers

[tatanab]

re Mafac cantilever brakes. The 'MAFAC Tandem' and 'Mafac Criterium' models are very similar but the tandem model has longer arms.

And longer shoes with 5 stud brake blocks versus 4 stud. Which is not to say that the brake shoes/blocks may not have been swapped for the 4 stud. I used both Criterium and Tandem version extensively in the late 60s and through the 70s. The brake blocks absorb water so become a bit squashy if exposed to lots and lots of rain.

[Brucey]

you know I said the two models were similar? Well I owned both sorts at different times and until fairly recently I didn't realise they were different from one another....

cheers

[StanleyMC]

Definately 35mm. I like this type of brake I fitted the Shimano version of this to a Kirk Revolution that I use for going to the shops.
The mystery of the frame build and the "Crown B" still remains unsolved. I tend to think that if it was purpose built the Logo may have been added
at the buyer's wishes.

Kirk Revolution

[StanleyMC]

Many Thanks to all for helping with identifying my Mixte bicycle.

At last i know where it comes from, it is a "Bespoke of Settle" made by a framemaker called Norris Lockley

There is a photo attached of the logo on another frame.

The persom who identified it is Scott Gater, of Velo Orange, Annapolis US. he replied to my mail within minutes of me sending it.
Below is a link he supplied:

ucp.php?mode=activate&u=41976&k=W9DTB9

Now the work of tracing the rest of it's history begins and also the restoration, luckily there is very little to do on thehang on parts other than cables, polishing and lubrication. The paint I will have to think about.

If any one knows of other bicyles ny Bespoke of Settle, please pass on the info or info about Mr Lockley or his family.
Many Thanks Yet again.
Stanley

Bespoke of Settle

[Brucey]

you can perhaps ask Mr Lockley himself; he appears to have written this article in recent years

http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/builders/norris-lockley-builder.html

there is also a collection of photos here

https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclecrank/collections/72157603595903633/

I'm still slightly mystified though; all the frames in the photo collection are exquisitely crafted, with very nicely filed lugs etc. I wonder why your frame appears not to be finished to the same standard?

cheers

[StanleyMC]

Many Thanks Brucey, Norris Lockley must be getting on.

I understand he started framebuilding in the early fifty's, if he didn't start when he was five years old, that must put him around 90.
There are very few images around I wonder what his production was.
His framemaking style seems change rather a lot, but if he was custom building maybe the style was dictated by the clients needs.