Using corrosion protection spray. Advice sought.

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gregoryoftours
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Joined: 22 May 2011, 7:14pm

Using corrosion protection spray. Advice sought.

Postby gregoryoftours » 25 Jul 2017, 11:26pm

Does anybody have any opinions or experience of using his frame internal corrosion protection spray, or tried other alternatives? I'm thinking specifically of progold frame protector spray, fluid film spray, boiled linseed oil. I used the last on an old steel orange clockwork because I heard that they were prone to rusting through at the chainstays bb end. Nice dribbles out of the welding holes in the stays for the next couple of years when it got hot. Unfortunately the bike was stolen so I don't know how effective it might have been, or even if it's worth bothering. When I have a nice light steel frame I feel like I want to treat it on the inside. Perhaps more importantly does anyone have experience of internal rust being serious enough to put holes in their frame or weaken it significantly?

Brucey
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Re: Speaking of JP Weigle

Postby Brucey » 26 Jul 2017, 1:32am

I have heard of frames rusting through on the top tube because water got in.

I have also seen/experienced corrosion that has (on reflection) probably been caused by condensation inside the frame.

A well-used frame of mine broke last year, and there was noticeable corrosion inside the top of the down tube, which wasn't vented through to the head tube. I think small amounts of moisture must have condensed regularly at the top of the down tube, and eventually caused the rusting. Possibly flux residue would have helped the corrosion along too.

One of my chums had a nice 531 framed bike which was used for commuting. One day it 'all went floppy' and it turned out that the seat tube had broken about 2/3rds of the way up. The seat pin turned out to be seized in position too. Again I think that corrosion ( and condensation too probably) may have been the culprit; the break was exactly at the base of the seat pin. The bike had mudguards and didn't stand in the rain or anything, which would normally not cause the (greased) seat pin to corrode. But the grease was maybe wiped from the end of the seat pin as it was inserted, and a condensation cycle inside the frame could have started corrosion off... I have often seen that seat pins seize worst near the bottom rather than at the top....

I've also seen old frames where someone has attempted to corrosion proof them using ad-hoc methods. One had thirty-year old pieces of newspaper stuffed inside it, which had presumably been soaked in oil originally. The newspaper came out along with more rust than I have ever seen before. As per another (rather bad tempered) recent thread I worry about putting anything (barring oil or wax, more or less) inside frames because it is so likely to cause unintended corrosion in the long term.

However the absolute worst corrosion (bearing in mind the time it took) I have seen has been inside refinished framesets. These seem to go bad incredibly quickly sometimes. I think that if an old frame is shot-blasted, whatever corrosion protection might have been inside the tubes to start with (eg phosphate treatment) is lost, and any blasting media residue left inside the frame may well accelerate the corrosion process too.

It is obvious that some kind of barrier coating inside the frame may help to inhibit corrosion. What is less obvious is that the chemistry of what you put in is very important. Proper corrosion proofing waxes are (or ought to be) loaded up with chemicals that inhibit corrosion, whereas a lot of ad-hoc versions (like the linseed oil option) are not.

I quite like waxoyl; it seems to work OK but exactly how it compares to other treatments I cannot say. Some folk have had problems with the coating inside the frame being too thick, but avoiding this is easy; just warm the frame up (to about 60C) e.g. using a hairdryer and any excess will come right out, leaving just a thin coating behind. There are lots of corrosion proofing waxes made for cars; some (like Bilt-Hamber) are well regarded and come in aerosols that are large enough to do a couple of frames.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

mig
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Re: Using corrosion protection spray. Advice sought.

Postby mig » 26 Jul 2017, 9:07am

http://www.acf-50.co.uk/bicycle.htm

i hurled a bit of this stuff on the underneath of a car a few years ago and it seemed to keep it rust free over the course of a winter. before building up a second hand mercian frame earlier this year that got the treatment too. whether or not it does any good inside the frame tubes i'm not sure but i thought it was worth a go with the rest of the can. the blurb on the website certainly rates it!! :wink:

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iow
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Re: Using corrosion protection spray. Advice sought.

Postby iow » 26 Jul 2017, 9:19am

a few squirts of engine oil into each tube once a year - I too like to see some creep on hot days.
robust enough to curtail the rot in the chassis of my old landrover which lives in a field....
mark

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Tinnishill
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Re: Using corrosion protection spray. Advice sought.

Postby Tinnishill » 26 Jul 2017, 1:15pm

I am assembling a bike from parts. I bought an aerosol tin of waxoyl for £10. About half of the can seemed to be enough to do the frame and forks. The frame is black. The day after spraying the frame was very sunny. Leaving the bike sitting in the sun resulted in the frame warming up and a lot of excess dripping out of the vent holes in the bottom of the frame. All now appears to be good but I suppose that i can't report success for 25 years or so.
Agitate, educate, organise.

reohn2
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Re: Using corrosion protection spray. Advice sought.

Postby reohn2 » 26 Jul 2017, 7:21pm

+1 for Waxoyl :)
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PDQ Mobile
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Re: Using corrosion protection spray. Advice sought.

Postby PDQ Mobile » 26 Jul 2017, 8:27pm

iow wrote:a few squirts of engine oil into each tube once a year - I too like to see some creep on hot days.
robust enough to curtail the rot in the chassis of my old landrover which lives in a field....

+1 cheapest and best

gregoryoftours
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Re: Using corrosion protection spray. Advice sought.

Postby gregoryoftours » 26 Jul 2017, 8:44pm

Thanks for your replies (and thanks to the mod who changed the name of the thread). It's good (in a way) to know that there are really issues and I'm not just being over cautious. I've bought some progold spray this time but I'm not entirely confident with the small amount that gets sprayed into each tube that it's really going to get into every nook and cranny, even with warmth and tipping it all over. I think next time I'll swill a large amount of waxoyl or other liquid form around all over and then let it drain while warm. Does anybody have experience of using waxoyl out of a tin - was it necessary to thin it by dilution or warming?

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meic
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Re: Using corrosion protection spray. Advice sought.

Postby meic » 26 Jul 2017, 8:53pm

Does anybody have experience of using waxoyl out of a tin - was it necessary to thin it by dilution or warming?

Yes but that was for working on a car in the cold or trying to get the cursed hand spray to work with the perforated tube for getting into pipes. In a nice warm house into a nice warm frame it should flow OK if the can has been stood a long time somewhere warm. If it is ready to use you can hear it sloshing in the can like a thin oil, if it isnt you can feel it move like a goo (if at all).
Yma o Hyd

gregoryoftours
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Re: Using corrosion protection spray. Advice sought.

Postby gregoryoftours » 26 Jul 2017, 10:26pm

'Nice warm house' does not describe my abode! I can leave the waxoyl in a bucket of hot water for a bit. Pity can't do the same for a frame!

Brucey
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Re: Using corrosion protection spray. Advice sought.

Postby Brucey » 26 Jul 2017, 11:02pm

to apply it, you can warn it up, or you can thin it with white spirt. There is some solvent in it anyway but if you thin it with white spirit it will stink for longer.

To remove the surplus, you need to heat the work up, else risk a waxoyl-wee every time the weather gets warm, or the bike sits in the back of a car on a warm day....

As I mentioned earlier the most convenient way of removing the excess quickly is probably to use a hairdryer. It is best to work down the length of each tube slowly with it; it takes a few seconds for the wax to change phase even at a high enough temperature. If you make a half-pipe of cardboard (or something) you can heat the whole circumference of the tube from one side using the hairdryer.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

gregoryoftours
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Re: Using corrosion protection spray. Advice sought.

Postby gregoryoftours » 30 Jul 2017, 4:52pm

Just bought a hairdryer - Waxoyl, here I come!

Bonefishblues
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Re: Using corrosion protection spray. Advice sought.

Postby Bonefishblues » 30 Jul 2017, 5:17pm

I'd use something less messy tbh. If you're in my area I may* have enough of this to do a frame with foc:
http://www.rust.co.uk/0001-mil-spec-tra ... ax/p487952

If it's good enough to proof an MX5 (and it is), then a bike's going to be just fine.

*subject to a garage furtle

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Gattonero
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Re: Using corrosion protection spray. Advice sought.

Postby Gattonero » 30 Jul 2017, 6:36pm

gregoryoftours wrote:Does anybody have any opinions or experience of using his frame internal corrosion protection spray, or tried other alternatives? I'm thinking specifically of progold frame protector spray, fluid film spray, boiled linseed oil. I used the last on an old steel orange clockwork because I heard that they were prone to rusting through at the chainstays bb end. Nice dribbles out of the welding holes in the stays for the next couple of years when it got hot. Unfortunately the bike was stolen so I don't know how effective it might have been, or even if it's worth bothering. When I have a nice light steel frame I feel like I want to treat it on the inside. Perhaps more importantly does anyone have experience of internal rust being serious enough to put holes in their frame or weaken it significantly?


BITD an imported of Dutch bikes advised me on this:

Image
https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Automo ... Wax/p41925

And I've used it many many times with great success, not only on frames but for protection of remote areas, especially on Cargo bikes/trikes that would see daily use in all weathers. At some point we were using it on pretty much all fixtures that were not stainless.
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...

jasps
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Joined: 16 May 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Using corrosion protection spray. Advice sought.

Postby jasps » 30 Jul 2017, 7:40pm

I've been using Scotoiler FS365 solution for a number of years now and so far, so good. Very easy to apply internally as it is watery solution and you can just swish it around inside the frame. I normally apply two coats. I use it on the outside of the bike too (keep it off rims and brake discs).

https://www.scottoiler.com/us/products/ ... fs365.html