1x11?

[reohn2]

To get a decent range it's the gaps that kill the 1x11
If a narrower range is all that's needed then 1× any useable range with acceptable gaps is all thats needed,and that can be a 1×7/8/9/10 or 11depending on terrain.
But it goes without saying that 2 x almost doubles the range and 3 x almost trebles it,with better chainlines and in anything below 10sp a stronger chain to boot.

FWIW,my optimum cadence is quite narrow under pressure ie steep grades or higher speeds,so smaller two tooth gaps,three tooth max in the lower climbing gears suit me well,unless a rider is strong enough I suspect there are more people like me than not.

[blackbike]

The gaps between gears has never really bothered me except when I raced on an amateur basis.

Then it was quite important. Cadence needed to be maintained at all costs and the slickest, most expensive gears which I could afford were essential.

Now I am not young and don't race I do not see the point of spending money on the best gearing.

For most middle aged and old touring cyclists all that matters is low gearing, not split second, ultra reliable gear changes like the boys on the Tour de France enjoy.

[reohn2]

The gaps between gears has never really bothered me except when I raced on an amateur basis.

Then it was quite important. Cadence needed to be maintained at all costs and the slickest, most expensive gears which I could afford were essential.

Now I am not young and don't race I do not see the point of spending money on the best gearing.

For most middle aged and old touring cyclists all that matters is low gearing, not split second, ultra reliable gear changes like the boys on the Tour de France enjoy.

Then why would anyone buy a very expensive to maintain 1x11 system when a much cheaper 3x9sp will do better,with lower gearing and changes just as slick as anything else except electronic shifting.
For the older less strong(didn't want to say weak)rider,surely opitmum cadence is more important and so it follows that three sets of closer gears than a wide range 1x11 can offer is far more practical for efficient power output.

[blackbike]

The gaps between gears has never really bothered me except when I raced on an amateur basis.

Then it was quite important. Cadence needed to be maintained at all costs and the slickest, most expensive gears which I could afford were essential.

Now I am not young and don't race I do not see the point of spending money on the best gearing.

For most middle aged and old touring cyclists all that matters is low gearing, not split second, ultra reliable gear changes like the boys on the Tour de France enjoy.

Then why would anyone buy a very expensive to maintain 1x11 system when a much cheaper 3x9sp will do better,with lower gearing and changes just as slick as anything else except electronic shifting.
For the older less strong(didn't want to say weak)rider,surely opitmum cadence is more important and so it follows that three sets of closer gears than a wide range 1x11 can offer is far more practical for efficient power output.

I agree.

[PH]

But it goes without saying that 2 x almost doubles the range and 3 x almost trebles it,

That's not my experience, every triple I've had adds a couple of gears either side of what's available on the middle ring, certainly not another set of gears.

[UpWrong]

I think the Rohloff demonstrates that the average tourer is happiest with 14 speeds at approx 13% gaps. So a 1x11 isn't sufficient. A 3x10 is because you get 2+10+2 useful ratios. Similarly a 2x12 would be sufficient because you'd get 2+12 ratios. Q.E.D.

[Bsteel]

The SRAM Eagle 1 x 12 is getting pretty close to the Rohloff.

http://www.gear-calculator.com/?GR=DERS ... 6&UF2=2185

[Brucey]

The SRAM Eagle 1 x 12 is getting pretty close to the Rohloff.

http://www.gear-calculator.com/?GR=DERS ... 6&UF2=2185

10-50T 12s cassette... don't mention the cost! If were an IGH the bloke that designed it would be fired for having such wonky gaps between the ratios, varying from 13% to 20%. Of particular irritation are the 3T interval from 18T to 21T and the 4T interval from 24T to 28T, both ~17% gaps in the middle of the range. Simply having another chainring enables a cassette to be used with better ratios in it. On the plus side the 'most used sprockets' are likely to be 16T and maybe 14T which is smaller than ideal but better than with a typical touring 1x11 setup.

For those who are keen to try 1x11 the least expensive cassette is (I think) SRAM PG-1130 11T-42T which is all-steel and costs about £50 a go. It fits to an 8/9/10 speed shimano freehub body, weighs 538g (claimed) and has sprockets

11,13,15,17,19,22,25,28,32,36,42

giving touring gears of (say) ~20" to ~80" with a single chainring

http://www.gear-calculator.com/?GR=DERS&KB=31&RZ=11,13,15,17,19,22,25,28,32,36,42&UF=2200&TF=90&SL=3.5&UN=MPH

and gaps varying from 12% to 18%, with up to ~16% intervals in the middle of the range. I wouldn't like this setup BTW, because I would end up riding a lot of the time on the 13T sprocket (~65" gear) which is inefficient, with a bad chainline, and will wear very quickly. If a ~20" bottom gear is required, I still think it is (for road use, with derailleurs) best achieved using additional chainring(s).

BTW it appears that the 'MTB' 11s cassettes come with a slightly different (wider) spacing than 'Road' 11s cassettes. From measurements it appears it may be possible to run such cassettes using a (cheaper) 10s chain. Since I have all the parts required in my stash to try it, I may give it a whirl sometime. Possibly there is additional clearance for MTB use (with an 11s chain) to allow for some build up of mud; not such a concern for road use....

cheers

[GideonReade]

On a slightly deviant note... Folks keep comparing the 1x11 to 9 speed, and praising the latter's maintainability. But...

1. Even at home (Worthing) or online in UK, 9 speed parts in higher quality ranges (eg XT) or choices (eg 11-34) are starting to dry up. That's ok for a utility bike say, but if you want to be fussy, a pain. I find for example that choosing XT cassette over the next range down is the best grammes/money weight saving bar dieting. But I simply couldn't get one last time I wanted.

2. We're on a long international tour. I replace chains regularly. In terms of availability :
Single speed - Everywhere
5/6/7/8 - Common, including the bazaar.
9 - Rarest - many "good" bike shops don't have.
10 - "good" bike shops have
11 - sorry, didn't look
By "good" I mean catering to riders of our fancy leisure bikes, in many countries, biggest cities only. Caveat: Survey of Europe, Asia, Oz only.

So my own choice in 2015 of 9 speed for these bikes is looking misguided! Seems at present 8 or 10 is the sweet spot for long haul, and I was told elsewhere that (at least for Shimano) the 10 speed chains outlast 9 speed. Not that I use Shimano chains myself.

[Bsteel]

10-50T 12s cassette... don't mention the cost!

I haven't managed to work out if the 10 and 12 tooth sprockets are available as spares or maybe common to parts on cheaper SRAM cassettes. It would be expensive to be need to replace the whole cassette for worn teeth.

[reohn2]

But it goes without saying that 2 x almost doubles the range and 3 x almost trebles it,

That's not my experience, every triple I've had adds a couple of gears either side of what's available on the middle ring, certainly not another set of gears.

Admittedly this is a custom cassette,though easily made from two 9sp ones,one 11/32 HG50,the other a Tiagra 14/15/17/19/21/23/25/28/32 with a 24/34/48 110BCD(Spa's own?) chainset.There are five overlaps and two no go ratios in that d/train leaving 20 useable gears but as I mentioned up thread some of those overlaps can come in useful negating the need for a double change,the range is 20 to 95 inches.The chainset can be geared up or down by changing any one,or all three chainrings to suit ride needs,andnif the big ring is swapped from a 48t to a 46t there are only two overlaps and two no go's,but top gear is lowered to 89 inch which is still a 25mph gear @ 90rpm,and big enough for me at least.
There's also the plus of having spare sprockets so a selection from 14/15/16/17/18/19/21/23/25,Tiagra cassette and 11/12/14/16/18/21/25/28/32 HG50 to suit your needs.

Or if you prefer to just use the HG50 11-32 cassette out of the box with an Alpine double chainset using the inner and middle ring settings at 24 and 39 tooth setings on the same 110BCD chainset,you can have the same 20 to 96 inch range with no over laps range but one no go gear,offering 17 gears but bigger gaps.
Either one is far more versatile than 1x11,much cheaper and a stronger chain,the cost is a front mech and changer.

Or if you prefer an other option is a 22/32/44t MTB chainset to lower the bottom end further or tighten up the ratios with something like a 14/30 cassette

PS,the gearing was calculated on a 700x32 tyre/wheel size

EDIT:- Those cassettes cost between £12 and £16 if you shop around,so two be as little as £24,quality 9sp chains cost £12

[Brucey]

On a slightly deviant note... Folks keep comparing the 1x11 to 9 speed, and praising the latter's maintainability. But...

1. Even at home (Worthing) or online in UK, 9 speed parts in higher quality ranges (eg XT) or choices (eg 11-34) are starting to dry up. That's ok for a utility bike say, but if you want to be fussy, a pain. I find for example that choosing XT cassette over the next range down is the best grammes/money weight saving bar dieting. But I simply couldn't get one last time I wanted.

no problem..?

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shimano-xt-m770-9-speed-mtb-cassette/rp-prod20677

last summer they were doing a deal whereby it was only a little more than this for an XT chain and 9s XT cassette together.

re chains; if push comes to shove in an emergency you can often use an 8s chain on (MTB) 9s. AFAICT not all 8s chains are created equal in this respect, and not all 9s cassettes work as well either, but some folk use 8s chain on 9s cassettes all the time.

If you are less fussy weight-wise, building/rebuilding (carrier-less) 9s cassettes using a few 8s sprockets (and/or 10s ones with the odd beer can shim added) works OK. Even on XT cassettes the smaller sprockets can be replaced with ones from a less expensive model, which can work well if carrier-fitted (larger) sprockets are not badly worn.

cheers

[Brucey]

10-50T 12s cassette... don't mention the cost!

I haven't managed to work out if the 10 and 12 tooth sprockets are available as spares or maybe common to parts on cheaper SRAM cassettes. It would be expensive to be need to replace the whole cassette for worn teeth.

12s cassettes start at £150 (for the cheapest model) and run up to £300 (for the posh one). They will only fit onto special SRAM freehub bodies (as are used for some dedicated 11s systems). Given that the sprocket spacing is narrower than 11s, I doubt that there will be an easy/economical replacement for odd worn 12s sprockets. Beside which the sprockets appear to be machined from one lump in most of the 12s cassettes (like the Goldtec cassettes were years ago...), so don't (apart from the 12 and 10T ones perhaps) come separately....

cheers

[reohn2]

On a slightly deviant note... Folks keep comparing the 1x11 to 9 speed, and praising the latter's maintainability. But...

1. Even at home (Worthing) or online in UK, 9 speed parts in higher quality ranges (eg XT) or choices (eg 11-34) are starting to dry up. That's ok for a utility bike say, but if you want to be fussy, a pain. I find for example that choosing XT cassette over the next range down is the best grammes/money weight saving bar dieting. But I simply couldn't get one last time I wanted.

So my own choice in 2015 of 9 speed for these bikes is looking misguided! Seems at present 8 or 10 is the sweet spot for long haul, and I was told elsewhere that (at least for Shimano) the 10 speed chains outlast 9 speed. Not that I use Shimano chains myself.

HG50/HG400 9sp cassettes and quality chains are available anywhere in Europe,and for the weight saving XT cassettes are a false economy IMO,saving a few grams on a race bike at elite level may be worth it,but for your average Joe won't make a ha'penny worth of difference,on a loaded touring bike even less and they won't last any longer than the cheaper options.
https://www.rosebikes.com/article/shima ... aid:890363

[andrew_s]

12s cassettes start at £150 (for the cheapest model) and run up to £300 (for the posh one).

I am led to wonder how much people who use 1 x $lots transmissions actually ride their bikes, or if they do ride much, how they stand the cost.
At that sort of cassette cost, you are going to want to change chains at the 0.5% wear point, but a cheap 11sp chain is £18-20 (up to £40 for good but not exotic), and a spell of wet weather or a cycling holiday could see the 0.5% limit blown in a couple of weeks (I've had a 2 week holiday, about 1000 miles, starting with a new chain, give enough wear that the next new chain skipped on return).

I'm now a cheapskate - I've reverted to 8-speed, and pay about £8 each for chains and cassettes, which I run together until they are worn enough to give noticeable (when riding) wear (about 6-7000 miles), then replace both.