1x11?
Re: 1x11?
I have a plan for a mad experiment; it is clearly possible to wear sprockets (a lot) by regularly changing chains whilst preserving the tooth profile well enough to run a new chain. Thus I have in mind a 'reverse-wearing procedure' for cassettes, which aims to resurrect sprockets that are already a little bit too worn to take a new chain.
We've all done it; intended to change a chain a bit sooner than we actually did, and fitted a new one only to find that it skips on the worn sprockets. Occasionally I have 'fought the system' and run a new chain on slightly worn sprockets until everything beds in again. But it can take a while and there is always a risk of skipping under some load.
I've tried de-hooking sprockets (by grinding) and this is only a partial success; the problem being that once the sprocket is slightly hooked, the roller wants to sit in the hook, which is at a slightly larger PCD than with an unworn sprocket. As each tooth comes under load, the roller rides up a little ramp into the hook, and this affects how the other rollers sit in the sprocket too, such that even if the hook is removed, the chain may not feed cleanly onto the sprocket as it leaves the rear mech.
shows the wear ramps very clearly, although this is an extreme example. To make a worn sprocket work OK with a new chain, I think it is necessary to remove the hook and the ramp.
My plan (such as it is) is to have several chains at my disposal, lets say 0.4%, 0.2% worn as well as new chains to hand.
Lets say I run a chain out to 0.7% and a new chain skips on the cassette. I would then run the 0.4% chain (which ought not skip) for a while ( a few hundred miles). Then I'd run the 0.2% chain for a while, and finally the new chain ought to run OK perhaps.... The idea is that at each stage the chain isn't liable to skip, but the worn sprockets are gradually recovering their shape such that they will tolerate a new(er) chain.
Has anyone tried this sort of approach...?
cheers
We've all done it; intended to change a chain a bit sooner than we actually did, and fitted a new one only to find that it skips on the worn sprockets. Occasionally I have 'fought the system' and run a new chain on slightly worn sprockets until everything beds in again. But it can take a while and there is always a risk of skipping under some load.
I've tried de-hooking sprockets (by grinding) and this is only a partial success; the problem being that once the sprocket is slightly hooked, the roller wants to sit in the hook, which is at a slightly larger PCD than with an unworn sprocket. As each tooth comes under load, the roller rides up a little ramp into the hook, and this affects how the other rollers sit in the sprocket too, such that even if the hook is removed, the chain may not feed cleanly onto the sprocket as it leaves the rear mech.
shows the wear ramps very clearly, although this is an extreme example. To make a worn sprocket work OK with a new chain, I think it is necessary to remove the hook and the ramp.
My plan (such as it is) is to have several chains at my disposal, lets say 0.4%, 0.2% worn as well as new chains to hand.
Lets say I run a chain out to 0.7% and a new chain skips on the cassette. I would then run the 0.4% chain (which ought not skip) for a while ( a few hundred miles). Then I'd run the 0.2% chain for a while, and finally the new chain ought to run OK perhaps.... The idea is that at each stage the chain isn't liable to skip, but the worn sprockets are gradually recovering their shape such that they will tolerate a new(er) chain.
Has anyone tried this sort of approach...?
cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: 1x11?
Brucey wrote:BTW it appears that the 'MTB' 11s cassettes come with a slightly different (wider) spacing than 'Road' 11s cassettes. From measurements it appears it may be possible to run such cassettes using a (cheaper) 10s chain. Since I have all the parts required in my stash to try it, I may give it a whirl sometime. Possibly there is additional clearance for MTB use (with an 11s chain) to allow for some build up of mud; not such a concern for road use....
cheers
Would be interested to hear whether a 10sp chain run on an 11sp MTB cassette works ok or not. I can contemplate moving from a 3x9 to a 2x11 set up if I could use existing 9/10sp cranksets and run with a 10sp chain.
Re: 1x11?
Available Data says that
Campag 10s - 4.15mm
SRAM 10s -3.95mm
Shimano 10s- 3.95mm
Campag 11s- 3.85mm
Shimano Road 11s - 3.74mm
SRAM 11s - 3.72mm
Shimano MTB 11s - 3.90mm
which suggests that a shimano/sram 10s chain will be in a gap between 0.05 and 0.23mm too narrow when fitted to 11s sprockets. I need to check to confirm this but I think that SRAM MTB cassettes are perhaps 3.9mm spacing like shimano ones. I have little doubt that a 10s chain will run on a 3.90mm pitch cassette.
I plan to try a 11-1 cassette, (which makes a 10s 13-upwards cassette, something you cannot buy ) with a triple chainset or a compact double and a 10s chain.
cheers
Campag 10s - 4.15mm
SRAM 10s -3.95mm
Shimano 10s- 3.95mm
Campag 11s- 3.85mm
Shimano Road 11s - 3.74mm
SRAM 11s - 3.72mm
Shimano MTB 11s - 3.90mm
which suggests that a shimano/sram 10s chain will be in a gap between 0.05 and 0.23mm too narrow when fitted to 11s sprockets. I need to check to confirm this but I think that SRAM MTB cassettes are perhaps 3.9mm spacing like shimano ones. I have little doubt that a 10s chain will run on a 3.90mm pitch cassette.
I plan to try a 11-1 cassette, (which makes a 10s 13-upwards cassette, something you cannot buy ) with a triple chainset or a compact double and a 10s chain.
cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: 1x11?
Looks like the irish Aqua Blue pro team have been following this thread.
I x 11 team bikes for the pro peloton next season.
http://road.cc/content/tech-news/229605 ... -aqua-blue
I x 11 team bikes for the pro peloton next season.
http://road.cc/content/tech-news/229605 ... -aqua-blue
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway X2, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840
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Re: 1x11?
I note from the article that 1x12 and 13 are being developed. Jolly good.
Re: 1x11?
Having started the thread and read through the well argued posts ive decided not to go for a single chsin ring set up. The potential simplicity and weight saving appeals but, on the other hand, im suspicious of chain angles and the possibility of faster wear. So im looking at 2x9 now.......must be 20yrs since ive had a double chain ring so will see how it goes.
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Re: 1x11?
I think that config. is perhaps the "sweet spot" - good choice.
Re: 1x11?
Bonefishblues wrote:I think that config. is perhaps the "sweet spot" - good choice.
Add another chainring and it's the sweetest of spots
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
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- Posts: 11043
- Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
- Location: Near Bicester Oxon
Re: 1x11?
reohn2 wrote:Bonefishblues wrote:I think that config. is perhaps the "sweet spot" - good choice.
Add another chainring and it's the sweetest of spots
40(2)/24 just fine, don't want to be thought profligate.
Re: 1x11?
I have an issue with smaller sprockets. They wear alarmingly.
Let's say that we want 110"+ top down to less than 30" bottom.
Chose a 48t single chainring?
If you pick a 1x cassette with that range, you need an 11t to get a top gear of 115" and a 44t to get 29".
Pick a 44t single chainring.
You'd need a 10t - 40t cassette.
Sorry, it's a stupid idea, especially that I would like 25" bottom or even less.
Let's say that we want 110"+ top down to less than 30" bottom.
Chose a 48t single chainring?
If you pick a 1x cassette with that range, you need an 11t to get a top gear of 115" and a 44t to get 29".
Pick a 44t single chainring.
You'd need a 10t - 40t cassette.
Sorry, it's a stupid idea, especially that I would like 25" bottom or even less.
Mick F. Cornwall
Re: 1x11?
................ but that's the point.
If all you have is a single ring with your cassette, you need to pick the ratios carefully. There's no point in having wasted unused sprockets.
If all you have is a single ring with your cassette, you need to pick the ratios carefully. There's no point in having wasted unused sprockets.
Mick F. Cornwall
Re: 1x11?
Bonefishblues wrote:reohn2 wrote:Bonefishblues wrote:I think that config. is perhaps the "sweet spot" - good choice.
Add another chainring and it's the sweetest of spots
40(2)/24 just fine, don't want to be thought profligate.
Been here before an awful lottatimes,50/48/46-34-24x14,15,17,19,21,23,26,28,32 or 30,34 cassette
Everything's covered with a road front and MTB rear mechs,STI,bar end or Kelly Take Off shifting.
It's a compact chainset with a bailout ring for the steep stuff
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Re: 1x11?
Mick F wrote:................ but that's the point.
If all you have is a single ring with your cassette, you need to pick the ratios carefully. There's no point in having wasted unused sprockets.
Or yawning gaps between ratios.
11sp offers only two more ratios than 9sp,1x 11sp offers a LOT less than 3x9sp and a narrower chain with horrid chainlines to boot
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden