Campag 11 speed hub problem

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Gattonero
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Re: Campag 11 speed hub problem

Post by Gattonero »

grazie wrote:It's good to hear that if I can somehow find 1mm of spacing in the axle drive side, I won't need to worry about re-dishing the wheel, although I'm sure some wheel builders wouldn't tolerate this.


The thing is, you want it to be good in the first place.
Can you measure the freehub width from the beginning (inside of the notch, towards the hub) to its end (towards the dropout)?

Also, it there a gap in between the freehub and the hub body?
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grazie
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Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 1:06pm

Re: Campag 11 speed hub problem

Post by grazie »

I've added a photo of both sides of the Ambrosio Zenith hub. Perhaps there's something obviously wrong that I can't see? I did take exception at the time to the spanner marks on the axle 'cones' and the gouges at the notch on the freehub splines, as I wouldn't have expected either on a brand new hub. I haven't been near them with cone spanners myself (yet) or driven the wheel in any way. Perhaps this is not unusual?

I can't get a measurement with a set of vernier's without taking the freehub off, which I don't want to do unless it's necessary. I've seen it done, but I've never done it myself before. Also, I can't find my solid metal rule, so the best measurement I can get on the freehub dimension requested is 36mm. I'd say there was no discernible gap between the freehub and the hub.

EDIT
Just learnt how measure depth using vernier's on Youtube (in Punjabi I think) :D. It is indeed 36.0mm.

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gfk_velo
Posts: 98
Joined: 19 Apr 2011, 3:31pm

Re: Campag 11 speed hub problem

Post by gfk_velo »

Probably the cassette body was swapped from Shimano with a set of worn (or cheap) cone spanners, hence the marks on the spanner flats.
Not that unusual that a retailer should do it ... but you'd hope that they'd do it in a way that didn't mark the components ...

There isn't a standard 11s pitch across sprocket c/ls - Shimano use a constant sprocket spacing but Campag don't - the inter-sprocket spacings on Campag vary slightly according to the ratios of the cassette. I know that in the early days of Miche 11s Campag-compatible cassette production, they did not conform to all of these small spacing differences - but it sounds as if your problem here is more than the difference that would be accounted for by those spacing changes anyway.

It also looks as if you are possibly conflating two issues - the possible poor fit of the Miche cassette to the cassette body and a reported case of poor shifting with the Miche cassette.

These may be connected and they may not - probably best to get the cassette fitted correctly and capable of use, then worry about the poor (or otherwise) shifting.

If you have access to a Campagnolo cassette body (and it sounds as if you do), offer up the Campagnolo cassette side reversed against the Ambrosio one. You don't need the actual measurements, you can do a simple comparative test.

Is the distance from the outer surface of the Campag locknut to the outer edge of the cassette body, the same as the Ambrosio one?
Is the distance from the outer edge of the cassette body to the functional base of the Ambrosio splines the same as the Campagnolo body?

If this is the same in both cases and the cassette fits the Campag body OK, then the chances are that you have the top sprocket mis-positioned so that the splines are not correctly engaging & the lockring is not pushing it as close to next-to-top as it should be. With a Campag cassette lockring on a Campag body, it won't reach the threads in this case ... but using a Miche cassette and lockring on an Ambrosio hub, it's possible that this error can be made and it may not be obvious.

If the edge-of-cassette-body to outer-surface-of-locknut is too short on the Ambrosio hub, relative to the Campag one, but the cassette body has the same functional depth, then the probability is that in swapping the cassette body over, if that is what has been done, a spacer has been missed out or incorrectly positioned, or Ambrosio's makers just got their sums wrong (unlikely).

I think it unlikely that the functional width of the Ambrosio cassette body is much less than the Campag one, or you would not get all the sprockets onto the body with the top one correctly engaged. If it's much more, the cassette probably wouldn't come up fully tight, since the top sprocket splines are "blind".

Shifting issues have so many possible causes, all relating to correct compatibility / alignment / assembly of everything from chainstay length gear hanger to frame, through lockring torque to cable route etc - a checklist of about 25 points in fact, that the strong likelihood is that the reported poor shifting will be the result of an error in this area rather than a basic failing in the components. It also rather depends what is being called a shifting issue and the customer expectation - I have seen plenty of cases where a consumer has told me their shifting is "fine" where I would not have let the bike out of our workshops under any circumstances, it was so poor ... so perceptions of what is or is not a poor shift are very variable.
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grazie
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Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 1:06pm

Re: Campag 11 speed hub problem

Post by grazie »

Thanks for this gfk. I'll try following your instructions and see how I get on. However, there are a few things that need clarifying to make sure I'm not misunderstanding what you're telling me.

Are freehub and cassette body the same thing? (perhaps one the terms in more technically correct than the other, but I don't know which)

I don't have a Campag 11 speed cassette. All I have is the Miche. I do have access to Campag, Mavic and Ambrosio cassette bodies (freehubs) attached to their respective hubs.

I added the Chain Reaction comment as they said that their LBS had difficulty in getting the Miche cassette fitted to their hub. Although it didn't state exactly what the problem was, I did assume the problem could have been similar to mine. I'm nowhere near to testing gear shifting, so puzzled as to why it is being discussed at all. I'm sure the info you provide will be useful later, if I ever get the Miche cassette mounted so that it's usable,
grazie
Posts: 38
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 1:06pm

Re: Campag 11 speed hub problem

Post by grazie »

Just reviving this thread before I go out and buy some cone spanners and perhaps a Compagnolo cassette too.

I'm hoping that someone had had a similar problem and could explain how they overcame it.
grazie
Posts: 38
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 1:06pm

Re: Campag 11 speed hub problem

Post by grazie »

Well, an 11-speed Super Record cassette was popped on the freehub on Friday and it made no difference whatsoever.
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