Cycling as a whole; losing the plot...?

[Vorpal]

It's a good thing that cycling has a whole never had a plot to lose

[Erudin]

From https://gravelandgrind.com/open-source-shifting/

"Shimano, round about 2003, decided to abandon normal bike riders. They snuffed the flame on tourists, casual riders, mountain bikers who have to ride to the trail head, mountain touring, or any one who needed gearing that fell outside of conventional racer or amateur racer needs. Shimano slowly duped the world into accepting the new norm of incompatibility, forced obsolescence, and unnecessary ‘advancements’ like electronic shifting. Here’s a basic run down on what Shimano did, and why you should be madder than a bunch of hornets that built a nest over a BBQ smoker."

"Shimano is secretly killing the triple crank. This is a huge can of worms, and I won’t fully open it, but here’s a peek inside. Shimano wants everyone to look like a racer. Magazines want whatever Shimano wants. Triples are tourist items, or normal person items, or older rider items, and Shimano only wants racers. Only the cheapest Shimano groups currently come with a triple option. A replacement triple front derailleur for your nice Ultegra group is only available in the Tiagra level, two steps down in quality. In a year, it will only be Sora, I bet. This means if you want to run integrated shifting plus a triple, you can currently do it, with old model 105 10 speed stuff, but the new stuff will phase that out soon, and you’ll be living in a world with no decent quality Shimano Triples. I’ll bet they do away with the double in 5 years, for everything but cheapo bikes, and go to a 1×13 or some nonsense. They’re already working on 12 speed stuff, and 105 electronic shifting."

From: https://gravelandgrind.com/great-ways-ruin/

Aerodynamic and even many new non aero road race frames often have terrible tire clearances. Our friend Rick mounted a set of 25mm Conti 4 seasons on his Cervelo and they rubbed a hole in his seat tube. Those tires run narrow, so they were more like a fat 23mm. That means the bike can never run tires below 100 psi, and can never be used on anything but the smoothest roads. That’s more typical for race bikes than atypical and it’s a shame.

3T Strada: I would not promote riding it off-road with those clearances as they do in this vid: https://youtu.be/HgI_0sKoFf0?t=1m15s

YouTube by road.cc: 3T Strada First ride - Is this the future of road cycling?

[Ellieb]

Aerodynamic and even many new non aero road race frames often have terrible tire clearances. Our friend Rick mounted a set of 25mm Conti 4 seasons on his Cervelo and they rubbed a hole in his seat tube. Those tires run narrow, so they were more like a fat 23mm. That means the bike can never run tires below 100 psi, and can never be used on anything but the smoothest roads. That’s more typical for race bikes than atypical and it’s a shame.

Errm I rather think that the tendency on most road bikes is to be able to accept wider tyres. 23mm is dying out even in the pro peleton.

[Brucey]

re shimano abandoning 'normal riders'. Yes there is a case there for sure. But arguably a main culprit is actually.....

SRAM.

In recent times they have been first to launch groupsets with more cogs at the back and fewer at the front for MTB use and the US-based cycling media have just lapped it all up like it is the best thing since sliced bread. Shimano have been hanging on their coat-tails in this respect.

I think shimano would have argued that they have maintained the same range of gears for 'road riders' as ever, even though they now mostly have compact doubles rather than triples. What they appear to fail to appreciate is that for years, folk have been using MTB cassettes and MTB rear mechs with road triples (often with smaller chainrings fitted to the 74mm BCD inner fitting) on road and touring bikes, to give a really wide range of gears; the range they offer for the road isn't really enough for a lot of riders, and an entire MTB drivetrain (whilst it might give low enough gears) isn't quite the thing for the road and there are problems with dropped bar shifters for this setup.

Shimano are so sure that they are doing the right thing that they have (as have campagnolo) deliberately hamstrung many of the road triples they do make with daft BCDs that prohibit the fitment of chainrings smaller than 30T to the innermost position.

What a bunch of gumbys; the triple chainset was invented for touring use and almost from its very inception it was possible to specify a chainring that was a lot smaller than the sprockets at the rear. But this is 'no longer necessary' according to shimano, it seems..... -they have never made a road groupset that encourages this i.e. where such an option is built in, it only happens by accident it seems....

Maybe it is all part of some evil plot to persuade us to fit bloomin' electric motors to our bikes.....

cheers

[Bsteel]

What a bunch of gumbys; the triple chainset was invented for touring use and almost from its very inception it was possible to specify a chainring that was a lot smaller than the sprockets at the rear. But this is 'no longer necessary' according to shimano, it seems..... -they have never made a road groupset that encourages this i.e. where such an option is built in, it only happens by accident it seems....

Even if they changed their minds I doubt it would fit a square taper BB.

[MikeDee]

I don't get Shimano's war on triples either. Maybe they figure most riders have trouble shifting triples. I have often heard that argument from riders claiming that advantage of a double over a triple. Maybe there's a lot of shifting challenged individuals out there. Maybe it's the racer-herd mentality where [inappropriate word removed] and poseurs buy only what the pros use. Once the pros switch to disc brakes, that will be the death knell for rim brakes on road bikes.

Mountain bikes are trending towards the downhill part of the spectrum. Bikes are getting long front centers, more travel, overly wide unergonomic handlebars and short stems, 1X drivetrain, and portly weights, all in the name of going faster downhill. Everyone wants to be a downhill racer. Doesn't anyone pedal uphill anymore? Going faster downhill also gets mountain bikers banned from trails.

[De Sisti]

You don't have to stick to Shimano triple chainsets. Stronglight (from Spa Cycles) make some good ones; and you can specify ratios too.

[Si]

Doesn't anyone pedal uphill anymore

why would you want to do that when youve got an electric motor to get you back up?

[cycle tramp]

H'mm... Page 37 of the bi-monthly cycle magazine, oct\nov '; Of course up dating your Di2 system is important.. ..visit your local shimano service centre regularly'
Somehow I suspect the bicycle shops named on that page may have paid shimano rather a lot of money to become a shimano service centre (and if you work for one of these places, it would be nice to know, either way, if my concerns are correct). I would ask directly but I couldn't find any in a post code that begins TA. So it appears that I don't have a local shimano service centre.. Good job I use a friction shifter and a transmission that I can repair myself.
As well as wringing money from customers, could shimano now be attempting to wring money from cycle shops?
'Oh, the King is in his altogether, his altogether, his altogether......'

[horizon]

You don't have to stick to Shimano triple chainsets. Stronglight (from Spa Cycles) make some good ones; and you can specify ratios too.

I've started a new thread about Stronglight here:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=117778

[fatboy]

H'mm... Page 37 of the bi-monthly cycle magazine, oct\nov '; Of course up dating your Di2 system is important.. ..visit your local shimano service centre regularly'
Somehow I suspect the bicycle shops named on that page may have paid shimano rather a lot of money to become a shimano service centre (and if you work for one of these places, it would be nice to know, either way, if my concerns are correct). I would ask directly but I couldn't find any in a post code that begins TA. So it appears that I don't have a local shimano service centre.. Good job I use a friction shifter and a transmission that I can repair myself.
As well as wringing money from customers, could shimano now be attempting to wring money from cycle shops?
'Oh, the King is in his altogether, his altogether, his altogether......'

I read that advert with incredulity. Has the plus side of making cabled STI shifters seem sensible!

[reohn2]

H'mm... Page 37 of the bi-monthly cycle magazine, oct\nov '; Of course up dating your Di2 system is important.. ..visit your local shimano service centre regularly'
Somehow I suspect the bicycle shops named on that page may have paid shimano rather a lot of money to become a shimano service centre (and if you work for one of these places, it would be nice to know, either way, if my concerns are correct). I would ask directly but I couldn't find any in a post code that begins TA. So it appears that I don't have a local shimano service centre.. Good job I use a friction shifter and a transmission that I can repair myself.
As well as wringing money from customers, could shimano now be attempting to wring money from cycle shops?
'Oh, the King is in his altogether, his altogether, his altogether......'

The King is definitely in the altogether,it's becoming bonkers.

[Bsteel]

H'mm... Page 37 of the bi-monthly cycle magazine, oct\nov '; Of course up dating your Di2 system is important.. ..visit your local shimano service centre regularly'
Somehow I suspect the bicycle shops named on that page may have paid shimano rather a lot of money to become a shimano service centre (and if you work for one of these places, it would be nice to know, either way, if my concerns are correct). I would ask directly but I couldn't find any in a post code that begins TA. So it appears that I don't have a local shimano service centre.. Good job I use a friction shifter and a transmission that I can repair myself.
As well as wringing money from customers, could shimano now be attempting to wring money from cycle shops?
'Oh, the King is in his altogether, his altogether, his altogether......'

I thought this could also be carried out by the user ? If so is it any different to the rider who takes their bike to the LBS for a service rather than doing it themselves.

[Stevek76]

Mountain bikes are trending towards the downhill part of the spectrum. Bikes are getting long front centers, more travel, overly wide unergonomic handlebars and short stems, 1X drivetrain, and portly weights, all in the name of going faster downhill. Everyone wants to be a downhill racer. Doesn't anyone pedal uphill anymore? Going faster downhill also gets mountain bikers banned from trails.

Mtbs have shifted back and forth in its sub disciplines for years, still plenty of XC bikes across the price range right up to the silly money carbon fibre everything so I'm not sure they're going anywhere any time soon.

[cycle tramp]

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