Replacement for HyRd disc brakes - suggestions?

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Brucey
Posts: 44515
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Replacement for HyRd disc brakes - suggestions?

Post by Brucey »

gloomyandy wrote:
Brucey wrote:
In either case the last few inches of housing (which is invariably the worst bit with a chainstay mounted caliper) can be slid off the inner cable and fettled if needs be.

cheers


Looking at the OP it seems to me that this bike (like many others) uses a single continuous outer from the levers to the caliper, so I'm not sure how easy it would be to fettle anything.


I meant in the context of having an in line oiler or a V-noodle near the caliper, as per the rest of the post that you have not quoted. You can of course then remove the last bit of housing from the cable, and see that things are not going bad inside, without having to remove the inner cable from the whole outer before you get a look at the part of the inner cable that is most likely to go bad.

cheers
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napier
Posts: 44
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 8:09pm

Re: Replacement for HyRd disc brakes - suggestions?

Post by napier »

Yes, on the Suffolk it is indeed a single outer cable the whole way. Through some of the most fiddly rubber grommets in and out of the down tube that you can imagine! In fact, I've now sealed the holes with clear mastic around the outer cable as the grommets have become ripped and torn during cable changes. And of course Whyte don't make it easy to get hold of replacements.
RichieSpice
Posts: 1
Joined: 21 Apr 2018, 7:11am

Re: Replacement for HyRd disc brakes - suggestions?

Post by RichieSpice »

Brucey wrote:HyRds just don't work for some folk

BTW another forum user sent me his failing HyRd calipers for post-mortem. You are quite welcome to do likewise if you want.

cheers



Hi Brucey, another Hy-Rd user here. I've been reading your various posts on them with great interest, so thank you. My rear hy-rd started leaking a lot from the seal so I switched back to the spyre. The front is still the hy-rd and I have bodged the push rod as I shouldn't to get it to work with my levers. 105s. I keep an eye on the pads but appreciate it's not correct.

My question is should I even try and repair the rear or just buy something else like the bb7s that appear to be brake of choice at the minute. The bike is my giant tcx that I use for racing cross (where I don't need brakes) but also for commuting and winter where I really wanted some more stopping power than the spyres seemed to give. I'm 75-80kg.

Thoughts appreciated

Rich
freeflow
Posts: 1636
Joined: 29 Aug 2011, 1:54pm

Re: Replacement for HyRd disc brakes - suggestions?

Post by freeflow »

But some of us get on with HY/RD just fine. I fitted mine in January 2015 as part of a new bike build. They stop me and the bike (at 120kg+) just fine, even one handed going downhill.

Whilst not exposed to constant skoggy conditions they have seen usage in very wet conditions and have been well used as I completed a double RTTY using them.

It would be helpful if TRP stated in VERY BIG LETTERS on the installation sheet that the setup of HY/RD brakes is counterintuitive and that experience of setting up other types of cable operated brakes is not a good guide for setting up HY/RD brakes.

The easiest way I can explain the set up is that you only need the very slightest of resistance when undoing the lock nut on the actuator arm. If the lock nut is difficult to release then the residual tension in the cable is too high and the return port will always be partially or totally closed.

Like the rest of my bike, the brakes are regularly cleaned by spraying with dilute shampoo and hosing off.

It also takes a whilst to adjust to the brake feel and I know some people just cannot cope with the fact that you have to operate the levers a lot to get to the bite point, but after that the brakes modulate well and have excellent stopping power.
Brucey
Posts: 44515
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Replacement for HyRd disc brakes - suggestions?

Post by Brucey »

RichieSpice wrote:
Brucey wrote:HyRds just don't work for some folk

BTW another forum user sent me his failing HyRd calipers for post-mortem. You are quite welcome to do likewise if you want.

cheers



Hi Brucey, another Hy-Rd user here. I've been reading your various posts on them with great interest, so thank you. My rear hy-rd started leaking a lot from the seal so I switched back to the spyre. The front is still the hy-rd and I have bodged the push rod as I shouldn't to get it to work with my levers. 105s. I keep an eye on the pads but appreciate it's not correct.

My question is should I even try and repair the rear or just buy something else like the bb7s that appear to be brake of choice at the minute. The bike is my giant tcx that I use for racing cross (where I don't need brakes) but also for commuting and winter where I really wanted some more stopping power than the spyres seemed to give. I'm 75-80kg.

Thoughts appreciated

Rich


If the rear brake is mounted on the chainstay, all kinds of things can run down the HyRd pushrod and cause trouble with the hydraulics; water, dirt, even swarf (from folk trying to adjust the pushrod -which you shouldn't do anyway- without undoing the locking screw first). Because (in part) there is a small negative pressure in the hydraulic system (which helps draw the pistons back) on the return stroke, any crud that gets past the dust boot can get into the seals and cause the system to leak or fail quite quickly. Rear calipers mounted on the seatstay and front calipers seem to last longer before that kind of trouble ensues. However some calipers are apparently not cleaned properly before they are assembled in the factory; I have recently found aluminium swarf that looks like it came from manufacture inside a HyRd caliper. Amazingly this wasn't its biggest problem....

More recent road STIs (most models launched after 2008) have a longer (New Super SLR (NSSLR)) cable pull than older road levers. This means that you get slightly less power (for any given caliper) with newer levers than with older ones. TBH there is not a lot to choose between Spyres and BB7s for power. Of the two I'd suggest that BB7 are a better choice (for all weather/condition use) simply because the caliper is easier to overhaul when the time comes. Spyres (and Spykes) have a complex set of thrust bearings inside that are more vulnerable to damage through crud and corrosion. By contrast BB7s are very much simpler inside. Neither mechanism is at all well sealed.

if you want lots of power from cable discs there are some golden rules

a) use the best quality cables, well set up and well lubed. If the cables get draggy you can lose 50% of your braking effort
b) be careful about pad selection; you will find that some work better than others, even if they don't last as long
c) be absolutely scrupulous about keeping you discs grease-free (NB once pads are at all contaminated they are best replaced)
d) consider using bigger discs

Bigger discs is the simplest way to more power; most brake calipers (say on ISO mounts) can be respaced using cheap brackets so that (say) a +20mm disc can be fitted. Conveniently a front 180mm disc caliper mount is almost identical to a rear 160mm one. A 180 front and a 160mm rear is enough for most folk. (Do check that the fork will accept a 180mm disc though; a few won't).

hth

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tiberius
Posts: 799
Joined: 31 Dec 2014, 8:45am
Location: North East England

Re: Replacement for HyRd disc brakes - suggestions?

Post by Tiberius »

freeflow wrote:But some of us get on with HY/RD just fine. I fitted mine in January 2015 as part of a new bike build. They stop me and the bike (at 120kg+) just fine, even one handed going downhill.

Whilst not exposed to constant skoggy conditions they have seen usage in very wet conditions and have been well used as I completed a double RTTY using them.

It would be helpful if TRP stated in VERY BIG LETTERS on the installation sheet that the setup of HY/RD brakes is counterintuitive and that experience of setting up other types of cable operated brakes is not a good guide for setting up HY/RD brakes.

The easiest way I can explain the set up is that you only need the very slightest of resistance when undoing the lock nut on the actuator arm. If the lock nut is difficult to release then the residual tension in the cable is too high and the return port will always be partially or totally closed.

Like the rest of my bike, the brakes are regularly cleaned by spraying with dilute shampoo and hosing off.

It also takes a whilst to adjust to the brake feel and I know some people just cannot cope with the fact that you have to operate the levers a lot to get to the bite point, but after that the brakes modulate well and have excellent stopping power.


+1

Great post....FWIW, I agree with every word of that.. :wink:
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pedalsheep
Posts: 1324
Joined: 11 Aug 2009, 7:57pm

Re: Replacement for HyRd disc brakes - suggestions?

Post by pedalsheep »

freeflow wrote:
It also takes a whilst to adjust to the brake feel and I know some people just cannot cope with the fact that you have to operate the levers a lot to get to the bite point, but after that the brakes modulate well and have excellent stopping power.

I think this is the root of my problem with these brakes, by the time they start to bite my small hands are struggling to get round the Tiagra levers.
'Why cycling for joy is not the most popular pastime on earth is still a mystery to me.'
Frank J Urry, Salute to Cycling, 1956.
Samsbike650

Re: Replacement for HyRd disc brakes - suggestions?

Post by Samsbike650 »

So because I am being simple is there a good picture guide as to how to set these up, as I run a set in my commuter

Thanks
Brucey
Posts: 44515
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Replacement for HyRd disc brakes - suggestions?

Post by Brucey »

Samsbike650 wrote:So because I am being simple is there a good picture guide as to how to set these up, as I run a set in my commuter

Thanks


http://www.trpbrakes.com/userfiles/file/HYRD_Final.pdf

https://www.trpbrakes.com/userfiles/file/TRP%20HYRD%20Technical%20Bulletin%20English%20Rev%20B.pdf

the critical thing (that is different from other brakes) is not to adjust the cable tension such that the brake arm lock knob cannot easily be depressed and threaded into the arm when the brake is 'off'. When the brake is set up correctly the bite point is about half way through the lever travel, but it does not vary from that position because the pads self-adjust for wear.

If you adjust the cable too tightly then the brake won't self-adjust any more. The original instructions didn't make that clear, thus they issued the bulletin.

They could have made the whole thing a darned sight clearer.... :roll:

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Samsbike650

Re: Replacement for HyRd disc brakes - suggestions?

Post by Samsbike650 »

Thanks Brucey, I think I have mine too tight, so basically the cable is relatively ‘loose’ when the arm is locked into position?
Brucey
Posts: 44515
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Replacement for HyRd disc brakes - suggestions?

Post by Brucey »

Samsbike650 wrote:Thanks Brucey, I think I have mine too tight, so basically the cable is relatively ‘loose’ when the arm is locked into position?


that is OK it usually means the cable is a little slack if anything. If I understand you correctly you could put a 1/2 turn on the barrel adjuster and still be able to use the locking knob?

BTW I trust you have not been trying to adjust the pushrod, only the cable, right?

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Samsbike650

Re: Replacement for HyRd disc brakes - suggestions?

Post by Samsbike650 »

I thought no do. So basically lock in the arm, tighten cable and unlock the arm by screwing loose the little thumbwheel. However usually I pull the cable quite tight when instead I should leave it slacker, or if I understand correctly, slack enough to screw looser the thumbwheel without moving the arm
Brucey
Posts: 44515
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Replacement for HyRd disc brakes - suggestions?

Post by Brucey »

if the locking knob is difficult to use or there is any discernable (backwards) movement of the arm when the locking knob is used, then the cable adjustment is probably wrong.

If you tighten the cable too much when the locking knob is used, the arm can spring forwards when the locking knob is released (due to springiness in the cable) and this can be enough to make the adjustment wrong.

FWIW the intention is that the compensation port in the MC is always just open when the arm is in the locking position. Occasionally I have seen calipers where this is not the case (usually because someone has been fiddling with it) in which case the pushrod needs to be adjusted. I do not recommend tampering with the pushrod unless it is proven that the setting is wrong.

To check that the compensation port is opening normally, push the caliper pistons back fully, then apply the brake normally (ie with the pads and disc in position) a few times. There should be no brake on the first few applications, then it should firm up as the brake self-adjusts. If you keep an eye on the pistons, you will see if they are moving evenly/normally or not. If the brake feels at all squashy, and/or you can see the arm moving appreciably once the brake is 'on' (i.e. as the lever pressure is increased) then probably the hydraulic circuit needs bleeding.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Samsbike650

Re: Replacement for HyRd disc brakes - suggestions?

Post by Samsbike650 »

Thanks will re adjust mine
freeflow
Posts: 1636
Joined: 29 Aug 2011, 1:54pm

Re: Replacement for HyRd disc brakes - suggestions?

Post by freeflow »

To all those adjusting their HY/RD brakes please let us know how you get on.
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