Front light positioning

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Brucey
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Re: Front light positioning

Postby Brucey » 1 Oct 2017, 2:40pm

the unsprung weight (the wheel and the bits bolted to it, including the brake) all flap up and down when you go down the (bumpy) road. That is the whole point of suspension.

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Mick F
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Re: Front light positioning

Postby Mick F » 1 Oct 2017, 2:52pm

Yes, I know about suspension.

Are you suggesting that the issue is the small wheels vibrating over bumps rather than the suspension system itself?
If I locked the whole suspension solid, would the problem you suggest still be evident?
Is it that non-suspended small-wheeled bikes can't have a fixed front light without it being shaken?
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Brucey
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Re: Front light positioning

Postby Brucey » 1 Oct 2017, 4:32pm

in bikes without suspension

a) the tyre is forced to do more work (in contrast to Moulton's design) which means there is less jiggling of the wheel and brake etc and
b) you and the bike are jiggling up and down at the same time, which means any movement of the lamp relative to the bike is less distracting.

If you don't believe me, try it and see. I tried it and I thought it was completely hopeless for the reasons I describe.

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Mick F
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Re: Front light positioning

Postby Mick F » 1 Oct 2017, 4:47pm

I bow to your experience and knowledge of course.
I note it and now having second thoughts.

How does this chap get on?
IMG_0596_zps222a1b56.jpg


Maybe he's had other ideas since his post?
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rmurphy195
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Re: Front light positioning

Postby rmurphy195 » 1 Oct 2017, 4:53pm

pwa wrote:Some Audax riders, who do a lot of night cycling, prefer to have the front light (or main front light if they have two) in a lowish position because, they say, they can see irregularities in the road surface better that way. I've not experimented so I can't say whether it is true.


In my yoof that's where the lamp mounting was, on a bracket halfway down the right front fork leg. And even with the comparativley feeble lamps of the day this position was good for picking-out road irregularities, potholes etc.
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Brucey
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Re: Front light positioning

Postby Brucey » 1 Oct 2017, 5:09pm

Mick F wrote: I note it and now having second thoughts.


that was really my reason for mentioning it. Try it and see if it is easy to do and especially appealing in any way.

Putting the front lamp on the brake has an advantage if it is a front-lamp only system, in that there are no wires that have to flex with the suspension movement. Other setups do require this.

I suspect that if you do enough miles (with wires that run onto the main part of the frameset), you will find that the short length of cable that flexes (with suspension movement) most ought to be of the sort that is used to make multimeter leads, else it will be liable to fail.

I don't know how many miles that chap had done before he posted. He either cleans his bike very well or 'not many' by the look of it.

BTW the full ghastliness was made apparent to me when riding on darkened roads; round town it was mostly OK by comparison.

In addition I didn't like the low light position; it made small holes appear like they were bottomless, which a higher position does not. Maybe you eventually get used to a particular length of shadow cast by a bad hole (with any given lamp position) and react accordingly. I use a fork crown mount on bikes with 700C wheels BTW; it usually puts the lamp about half-way between the tyre and the handlebars.

[edit; also I suspect that if the bracket is at all springy and/or the beam pattern has a sharp cutoff, you may find the beam pattern jiggling worse. I did.]

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RickH
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Re: Front light positioning

Postby RickH » 1 Oct 2017, 7:26pm

could you use something like the Topeak Bar X' Tender below your bars or stem as somewhere to fix a light. Other designs are available that do the same thing - I've used a Minoura Swing grip in the past to mount a light & a map holder when I didn't have spare space on my bars (& I don't really like things above the top of the bars anyway).

Alternatively B&M do a handlebar bracket to put a light centrally just in front of the stem using a narrow collar on one side of the bars.

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Mick F
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Re: Front light positioning

Postby Mick F » 2 Oct 2017, 6:02am

Brucey:
I intend carrying out an experiment. I have a couple of bright-ish front battery lights, and later today see if I can fit them "Heath Robinson" to the top of the fixed forks. Next opportunity I get when it's dark, I spin off down the dark non-streetlight lanes and see the jiggling.

RickH:
Thanks for those ideas.
I've been scouring the 'net for front lights and clamps etc so I'm familiar with the devices. One light I looked at had clamps for the 'bars. Gordon only knows which one it was, I seem to have spent hours surfing! I'll have to go back through my browser history to search for it.

PS:
Found it.
Supernova E3 Pure 3
http://supernova-lights.com/en/products ... e3-pure-3/
Screen Shot 2017-10-02 at 06.15.07.png


Screen Shot 2017-10-02 at 06.13.46.png
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deliquium
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Re: Front light positioning

Postby deliquium » 2 Oct 2017, 8:19am

This may have enough adjustment to go around the TSR headtube?

"The strap can indeed be turned 90 degrees to allow inline fitting."

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/lighting-sp ... -mm-clamp/

Image
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Mick F
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Re: Front light positioning

Postby Mick F » 2 Oct 2017, 8:28am

That is a brilliant find!
The head tube is 32mm diameter.

I wonder if it could be fitted on the steerer in the middle or low in the spacer stack?
Have it loose as you tighten the top cap, then align and tighten up.

I have alu spacers with a couple of spares. It wouldn't be too difficult to make cut-outs in them to allow the narrow clamp with the wider the main unit.
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Mick F
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Re: Front light positioning

Postby Mick F » 2 Oct 2017, 9:46am

Been surfing again.

Found this site, and it gave me a good idea.
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/light-mounts.php
r&mbracketmounted.jpg
r&mbracketmounted.jpg (26.22 KiB) Viewed 213 times


This seems a better alternative. I know it's yukky black, but if it's a success, it can be removed and painted silver.
http://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s169p360 ... ar-Bracket
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Brucey
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Re: Front light positioning

Postby Brucey » 2 Oct 2017, 10:24am

the B+M band clamp obviously doesn't turn with the steering if you mount it onto the head tube, which you may or may not want.

I prefer not to mount lights on the handlebars; I don't like the clutter (the handlebars are for, er, your hands... -although some folk have so many gadgets that they barely have room for anything more.... .) and with a dynamo system you need to have the wire trailing all up the stem and so forth. It is difficult to make this neat and such that you are not going to snag the wire when using the bike. The lamp also sticks out/away from the handlebar in some cases, which is ugly, and if the bracket is long and not stiff enough it will tend to flap around (less of a problem on a bike with front suspension though).

Mick, you have not said what is so bad about my suggestion of a repurposed brake hanger. I'm sure such a thing could be found that is in silver.... :wink:

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Brucey
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Re: Front light positioning

Postby Brucey » 2 Oct 2017, 10:32am

Mick F wrote:Brucey:
I intend carrying out an experiment. I have a couple of bright-ish front battery lights, and later today see if I can fit them "Heath Robinson" to the top of the fixed forks. Next opportunity I get when it's dark, I spin off down the dark non-streetlight lanes and see the jiggling.


I shall be interested to hear what you think about it. Do bear in mind that the beam pattern of most decent dynamo front lights is different to battery lights; it is more like a car dipped beam, i.e. has a cutoff that is usually thrown up on the road a distance; jiggling tends to make the cutoff move erratically on the road surface which I find rather distracting. I have a feeling it may make me feel somewhat nauseous too.

If the results are inconclusive in any way, maybe repeat the test once you get a dynamo front light? IIRC most lights will come with a bracket that will allow easy fitment to this point.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Front light positioning

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 2 Oct 2017, 12:19pm

Hi,
I don't like bar clutter either, though I know Mick hates any, the portion of bars either side of stem are not used by the hands so this is the most useful place as lower means its more difficult to operate light modes / remove put on after ride.
The plastic or metal which are peanuts like the one shown in pic above (peterwhite) come in many designs and with dummy short 22mm bars.
This enables more bar acre'age without impeding on hand area.
All plastic are half the price.
No special bracket with this either..........


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Handlebar-Ext ... 1MwWKUn4Hg
handle bar ext.jpg
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Mick F
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Re: Front light positioning

Postby Mick F » 2 Oct 2017, 1:47pm

Brucey wrote:further to my earlier post, for a moulton, I'd probably get something like this;

Image
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brakes/254-tektro-alloy-cable-hanger-w-adjuster-black/

and add an extension to it to mount the lamp. The bracket ought to be pretty strong and the adjuster thread is usually M6; it ought to be straightforward to use an M6 nut and bolt to add the bracket/extension as required.

cheers

Brucey wrote:Mick, you have not said what is so bad about my suggestion of a repurposed brake hanger. I'm sure such a thing could be found that is in silver.... :wink:
Sorry, I should have replied about that.

Not keen on it. It would have to go on the steerer and I doubt it would be as easy as the other one suggested by deliquium above.

Had a go briefly at trying to lash up a light or two onto the forks, but the difficulty will be the aiming and adjustment. I'll have another play later.

As for handlebar clutter, I hate it. I said earlier that I tried a bar bag and sold it.
On the 'bars of Moulton, I have my Montana in the middle and a Lion Bell to the side. I could move the bell to the other side easily. There's plenty space for my big hands.
IMG_0194.JPG
By fitting the plastic bracket from Spa http://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s169p360 ... ar-Bracket it could fit downwards and under the Montana so the light would be almost central and away from my hands as per this:
r&mbracketmounted.jpg
r&mbracketmounted.jpg (26.22 KiB) Viewed 182 times
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