Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

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ehelifecycle
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Re: Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

Post by ehelifecycle »

steady eddy wrote:Pilgrim Audax bike 10.5 kgs with Spa wheels, Brooks saddle, Tubus rack, mudguards and campag triple chainset. Pilgrim reckon they could build one down to around 8kgs.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lsixuRRqxo1VjgXXkHE-HkTXa4qMTVcyZb50QX-tebA/edit#gid=0

thanks
ehelifecycle
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Re: Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

Post by ehelifecycle »

deliquium wrote:
Brucey wrote:FWIW in about a 22-23" size typical frameset weights (in standard tube gauges) are

- 753 about 5-1/2lbs
- 531SL/653 about 5-3/4lbs
- 531 DB/531C about 6lbs
- 531ST (first version, with a light build) about 6-1/2lbs
- A typical PG frameset (not built for very much of a load) ~7lbs
- 531ST (later versions built for a load) 7-1/2 to 8-1/2lbs
- other touring frames built strong for load carrying; ~8-9lbs

A 20-30 Raleigh frameset (as used in many roadsters) weighs about 9lbs or perhaps a touch more
A 1977 Dawes galaxy frameset (531 PG main tubes, built to carry a load) weighs about 8-1/2 lbs (about the same as a current Surly LHT I think)
A Pashley Sovereign roadster frameset weighs over 12lbs.
A steel MTB frameset (suitable for touring on with a load) weighs between ~7lbs and 9lbs depending on tubeset. [Obviously MTB frames meant for XC racing can be a fair bit lighter.]

Oversize tubesets can make it so that a lighter frame is still suitable for a load, in theory. However such frames can give a somewhat harsh ride when unloaded.

cheers


Just weighed the most recent acquisition to the deliquium stable :D

22½" 1980 Dawes Super Galaxy butted 531 (pre ST) frame and forks including 'heavy' original steel headset = 7lb 2oz (3.23kg)


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lsixuRRqxo1VjgXXkHE-HkTXa4qMTVcyZb50QX-tebA/edit#gid=0

thanks
ehelifecycle
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Re: Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

Post by ehelifecycle »

dg wrote:I recently dismantled my 21 year old steel tourer for a respray, so I have some weights for your data collection.

It's a 23" Chas Roberts (branded "FW Evans"), 531ST double butted frame and forks.
Frame 2460g (including bottom bracket + axle and steering bearing cups)
Forks 760g.

The whole bike weighs 13.5kg fully assembled. The rear pannier on its own is 1410g; I might treat myself to a lighter one someday.

I bought it to replace a Claud Butler Mistral, which was also 531 DB, but from before the days when they divided into 531C and 531ST. It gave a livelier ride, which I preferred, and I put down to the thinner tubing. I've never been one for touring carrying a tent + kitchen sink, which is when i imagine the 531ST came into its own.

In the last couple of years I've started going out on short day rides with a club, and have bought a Spa Audax Ti for the summer, relegating the Evans to winter duties. The Spa handles beautifully. It weighs about 10.5kg fully assembled.



great thanks you are added
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lsixuRRqxo1VjgXXkHE-HkTXa4qMTVcyZb50QX-tebA/edit#gid=0
Brucey
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Re: Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

Post by Brucey »

deliquium wrote:
Just weighed the most recent acquisition to the deliquium stable :D

22½" 1980 Dawes Super Galaxy butted 531 (pre ST) frame and forks including 'heavy' original steel headset = 7lb 2oz (3.23kg)


that is interesting; it is a bit heavier than I expected and a bit heavier than a smaller version of the same frame IIRC. But back in the 531DB days there wasn't really a standard tubeset; all the tubes were available in different gauges so that you could built a lightweight frame (which most were) or one that was not wildly dissimilar to a 531ST frameset (less commonly for loaded touring), and it would come out with the same sticker on it. Dawes may have specced the heavier tubes for their touring bike. The 531ST decal later formalised that situation, I think.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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willcee
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Re: Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

Post by willcee »

Apologies if this has already been covered, but an interesting few facts about the French and their love of Randonneurs, in fact they had a gov. approved cycle industry standard build very early on in all their factorys for a tourer.. pre war RALEIGH had the light sub 22lbs Record Ace , with full guards and its own special rear rack.. the French again pre war every year had a competition where the competing builders private and factory trialled thousands of K's on their pre development machines in high summer , often in ALLOY, and fully kitted with lights guards and racks and weighing around 20lbs..one i love is the Charrell.. see here.. gorgeous..wonder what it cost new..will
.http://www.reneherse.com/Charrelfab.html
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Gattonero
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Re: Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

Post by Gattonero »

PhilD28 wrote:... Can I ask about the extra stays you have added to the carradice carrier and the stay fixing to the carrier....


Have a look here.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=113849&p=1122302#p1122302

I'd like to point out a couple of things:
-the shims between the "eyelets" and the Bagman tubing are very important, make sure you can get the bolts tight with a suitable shim
-use threadlock in all the bolts for peace of mind
-speaking of which, please remove the 3mm allen keys on the QR blok carefully, warm them up as much as you can and use a good allen key, they can round-off easy due to the strong threadlock used at the factory

Image
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
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Gattonero
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Re: Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

Post by Gattonero »

Forgot to say: you have to file down (and polish, if you want it to look neat) the edges on the top side of the "blocks" to a round shape, if you leave them with a square edge they will rub and wear down the bag (and it does happen!)
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
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deliquium
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Re: Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

Post by deliquium »

Just back from its 25th birthday repaint :D

1992 George Longstaff 531 Designer Select touring frame and forks

22½" Frame: 2211g
1" steerer Forks: 820g
Tange Levin CDS steel headset 140g

TOTAL= 3.17kg (7lb)
Current pedalable joys

"you would be surprised at the number of people in these parts who nearly are half people and half bicycles"
RJC
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Re: Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

Post by RJC »

RJC wrote:Spa Cycles 57cm titanium tourer with headset cups & some foam wrapping 1916gm (frame weight ~1.8-1.85Kg)
Spa tourer steel forks uncut 1128gm
I did investigate Condor steel touring forks which were claimed to be 800gm but turned out to be slightly heavier than the Spa forks..


Update:
Stainless forks in KVA MS3 (similar PH S/S to Reynolds 931 but not identical) with canti mounts and uncut 320mm steerer; 850gm.

(Also interested in any updates on CJ's custom ti project)
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iow
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Re: Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

Post by iow »

RJC wrote:Update:
Stainless forks in KVA MS3 (similar PH S/S to Reynolds 931 but not identical) with canti mounts and uncut 320mm steerer; 850gm.



where did you buy the fork from?
mark
RJC
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Re: Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

Post by RJC »

iow wrote:
RJC wrote:Update:
Stainless forks in KVA MS3 (similar PH S/S to Reynolds 931 but not identical) with canti mounts and uncut 320mm steerer; 850gm.



where did you buy the fork from?


Custom build by Richard Hallett as the offset was a bit larger than anything off the peg. Went for SS partly for novelty.
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iow
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Re: Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

Post by iow »

RJC wrote:
iow wrote:
RJC wrote:Update:
Stainless forks in KVA MS3 (similar PH S/S to Reynolds 931 but not identical) with canti mounts and uncut 320mm steerer; 850gm.



where did you buy the fork from?


Custom build by Richard Hallett as the offset was a bit larger than anything off the peg. Went for SS partly for novelty.



thanks - would you mind posting or PMing me with the price?
mark
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The utility cyclist
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Re: Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

Post by The utility cyclist »

Specialized Sirrus pro carbon ltd 58cm. FACT 9M carbon layup so more durable than the 'R' series (I had a guess earlier but forgot the M layup is a fair bit heavier than the road series layup), it's the same layup as for their earlier high end 'pro' (As opposed to S-Works) CF Mountain bikes like the stumpjumper and Epic so should be very robust.
Frame with upper cup 1354g
Forks (uncut full carbon with lower race) 567g
Including headset + spacers, pannier rack & cage bolts, cable adjusters, post clamp it's 2036g
Cantis/V-brakes only but that's fine and I'll be fitting TRP CX9s anyway.

Can't wait to build it up for next year and add guards and a rack and see how it handles some loads, without mudguards,rack and pedals but with 32 spoke handbuilt wheels plus robust 32mm tyres I reckon with the build I have planned it'll be circa 7.8-7.9kg so I'll be able to use it as a decent winter racer and do a bit of of 'adventure' riding too. :D
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Gattonero
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Re: Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

Post by Gattonero »

it's not just about weight per se, sub 8kg seems optimistic for an "all roads" setup to be done with components that are not for "racing" (=one season usage)
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
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The utility cyclist
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Re: Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

Post by The utility cyclist »

If 2-3kg less weight on the bike means I can put that more in the bags for no penalty or be same lighter then why not? I accept practically it wont make a huge difference but if the cost diff is relatively minimal (from my pov at least), gives me more comfort, longevity and better/easier functionality over some other parts that are heavier/less expensive I think it's a reasonable trade off, it certainly is for me.
A CF seatpost and bar is always first on my list because on past performance they offer longevity but importantly more comfort at not very much more than mid range alu, the bars are for XC, hardly what I'd call one season wonder type kit
A pair of 32 spoke handbuilt wheels plus 60tpi 32mm tyres are most definitely not 'racing'.

Mini Vs that offer exceptional stopping power and can be used with drops should i change the set up and have space for guards so that i can fit 38mm under them is rather sensible thinking IMO.
The Ultegra flat bar shifters I have on my utility bike, I love them, work great, are robust in all weathers, Ultegra 12-30 cassette because i dont want a wider spread plus a type of chain that I've used for all weather touring before is not racing kit.

The only concession is a pair of very light high end alu cranks, just because I like the colour and they're gathering dust on my ti racer.  In std form it'll be 50/36 with a 33 for days that are harder but I could fit a lighter still Stronglight that gives me 28 inner however the colour doesnt match.

This bike isn't going to be used for heavy loads, probably 10kg max including the rack/pannier and guards but then I've toured with less than that before over 10 days abroad,, it certainly isn't for camping or expedition touring (though plenty have with CF racing bikes) but it most definitely isn't a racing set up.
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