Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

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tykeboy2003
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Re: Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

Post by tykeboy2003 »

I've got an Edinburgh Cycle Co-op Revolution Country Explorer. I couldn't tell you what the frame weight is but the spec for the whole bike as new was something like 14kg.

It's heavy man.
Bonefishblues
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Re: Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

Post by Bonefishblues »

tykeboy2003 wrote:I've got an Edinburgh Cycle Co-op Revolution Country Explorer. I couldn't tell you what the frame weight is but the spec for the whole bike as new was something like 14kg.

It's heavy man.

It's about average, I'd say :D
yostumpy
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Re: Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

Post by yostumpy »

ImageWP_20170331_10_40_33_Pro by mark tilley, on Flickr
yep, 'bout the same as my Ridgeback world panorama deluxe. I suppose there is the argument that the frame is heavy, so might as well just throw any old stuff on it component wise, 'its already heavy' , and 'whats the point of putting lightweight stuff on a heavy frame'.
Well weight is a funny thing, be it on oneself, bike frame, whole bike, camping kit, (tent, sleeping bag etc),it just CREEPS UP AND UP!!. So yes have a solid touring frame that weights a tad more, but also don't be afraid to fit lightweight kit to it, ie lighter (better) wheels, lighter tyres, a lighter tent (maybe 1kg lighter if you have an old one), just keep an eye on everything, do the best you can, and just HAVE FUN!!.

''I'll be alright in the end....if its not alright, then its not the end''!!
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CJ
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Re: Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

Post by CJ »

I don't think that a touring bike ridden by 70kg me with 20kg of luggage, need be any heavier than the bike that's raced by 90kg Mr Muscle!

But Mr Muscle's racing bike, unfortunately, does not have enough space for the slightly bigger tyres I like to use, or the mudguards and the mud that goes 'em. So I must buy a touring bike.

A bit of extra fresh air around the wheels doesn't have to weigh hardly anything, but it does! I can guess how it goes in the Design Department at Trekkendale Cycles: after weeks watching the grams on 'serious' sports equipment, the bike designer is handed a touring brief. He breathes a sigh of relief, eases back in his chair, metaphorically slackens his belt and orders a Big Mac!
Chris Juden
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pwa
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Re: Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

Post by pwa »

CJ wrote:I don't think that a touring bike ridden by 70kg me with 20kg of luggage, need be any heavier than the bike that's raced by 90kg Mr Muscle!

But Mr Muscle's racing bike, unfortunately, does not have enough space for the slightly bigger tyres I like to use, or the mudguards and the mud that goes 'em. So I must buy a touring bike.

A bit of extra fresh air around the wheels doesn't have to weigh hardly anything, but it does! I can guess how it goes in the Design Department at Trekkendale Cycles: after weeks watching the grams on 'serious' sports equipment, the bike designer is handed a touring brief. He breathes a sigh of relief, eases back in his chair, metaphorically slackens his belt and orders a Big Mac!


But a race bike isn't designed to take knocks. You have to look after it too much for it to be practical on a tour. The saddle needs to be comfy rather than superlight, and the wheels need a bit more beef to let you cycle up the bumpy track to the camp site. If you expect rain (I've had that in the South of Fance in August) you may want guards. I don't want my touring bike to be specced to keep weight down at all cost. It has to be a compromise, with weight as one of the considerations.
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tykeboy2003
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Re: Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

Post by tykeboy2003 »

Bonefishblues wrote:It's about average, I'd say :D


I have a Giant hybrid (alloy frame complete with rack and panniers) and my partner has a Pinacle alloy Hybrid with rack (no panniers), and I certainly feel the difference when I lift the Revolution onto my workshop bike stand.....
PH
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Re: Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

Post by PH »

CJ wrote: A bit of extra fresh air around the wheels doesn't have to weigh hardly anything, but it does!

How much heavier would a race frame in the same material be to your tourer? My guess would be around 150g and along with the extra air you'll also get the heel clearance for panniers, fitting for brakes rather than a hole for calipers and hopefully toe clearance. Is there much that can be saved off that? If I'm correct and it's around 150g (Maybe 10%), is that significant on a touring bike?
RJC
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Re: Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

Post by RJC »

PH wrote:
RJC wrote:I did investigate Condor steel touring forks which were claimed to be 800gm but turned out to be slightly heavier than the Spa forks..

I also have that Tange fork, bought for geometry and fittings, on my kitchen scales it comes in a a couple of grams over 1kg with the fork cut down to 300mm. Condor did have it listed at a lower weight (They've corrected it now) I would have been surprised if it was right, a steel fork made for front panniers is going to weigh that much +/- an insignificant amount.


I also suspected a typo so they got someone in the workshop to check and said number(800gm) was correct. I never got an explanation for what happened there.
Their version of this fork with disc brake mount is very similar weight to the cantilever touring fork, which seems to imply making forks strong/stiff enough for front panniers will also make them beefy enough for a disc brake.
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CJ
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Re: Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

Post by CJ »

pwa wrote:
CJ wrote:I don't think that a touring bike ridden by 70kg me with 20kg of luggage, need be any heavier than the bike that's raced by 90kg Mr Muscle!

But Mr Muscle's racing bike, unfortunately, does not have enough space for the slightly bigger tyres I like to use, or the mudguards and the mud that goes 'em. So I must buy a touring bike.

A bit of extra fresh air around the wheels doesn't have to weigh hardly anything, but it does! I can guess how it goes in the Design Department at Trekkendale Cycles: after weeks watching the grams on 'serious' sports equipment, the bike designer is handed a touring brief. He breathes a sigh of relief, eases back in his chair, metaphorically slackens his belt and orders a Big Mac!


But a race bike isn't designed to take knocks. You have to look after it too much for it to be practical on a tour. The saddle needs to be comfy rather than superlight, and the wheels need a bit more beef to let you cycle up the bumpy track to the camp site. If you expect rain (I've had that in the South of Fance in August) you may want guards. I don't want my touring bike to be specced to keep weight down at all cost. It has to be a compromise, with weight as one of the considerations.

The occasional bumpy track and some gravel roads, hmmm let me see... Paris - Roubaix anyone? Cyclo-cross? And what about Mr Muscle's actual muscles? As a 'mere tourist' I don't reckon to be anything like as strong as him, so I'm not going to bend or break things like he can.

I get people on my tours on race bikes. They don't have enough space in the frame for the tyres I deem sensible, or guards at all, the gears aren't low enough and the luggage is sometime cobbled together and compromised by poor heel clearance, but they don't break. So I don't think touring bikes should HAVE to be heavy, just because a tiny minority of the people who buy them will be lard-asses with no riding finesse who haul stupid amounts of camping gear over horrible tracks!
Chris Juden
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meic
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Re: Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

Post by meic »

I don't think touring bikes should HAVE to be heavy, just because a tiny minority of the people who buy them will be lard-asses with no riding finesse who haul stupid amounts of camping gear over horrible tracks!

Yes but my Long Haul Trucker does do that particular job very well. :lol:
Though more frequently stupid amounts of shopping rather than camping gear.
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pwa
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Re: Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

Post by pwa »

CJ wrote:
pwa wrote:
CJ wrote:I don't think that a touring bike ridden by 70kg me with 20kg of luggage, need be any heavier than the bike that's raced by 90kg Mr Muscle!

But Mr Muscle's racing bike, unfortunately, does not have enough space for the slightly bigger tyres I like to use, or the mudguards and the mud that goes 'em. So I must buy a touring bike.

A bit of extra fresh air around the wheels doesn't have to weigh hardly anything, but it does! I can guess how it goes in the Design Department at Trekkendale Cycles: after weeks watching the grams on 'serious' sports equipment, the bike designer is handed a touring brief. He breathes a sigh of relief, eases back in his chair, metaphorically slackens his belt and orders a Big Mac!


But a race bike isn't designed to take knocks. You have to look after it too much for it to be practical on a tour. The saddle needs to be comfy rather than superlight, and the wheels need a bit more beef to let you cycle up the bumpy track to the camp site. If you expect rain (I've had that in the South of Fance in August) you may want guards. I don't want my touring bike to be specced to keep weight down at all cost. It has to be a compromise, with weight as one of the considerations.

The occasional bumpy track and some gravel roads, hmmm let me see... Paris - Roubaix anyone? Cyclo-cross? And what about Mr Muscle's actual muscles? As a 'mere tourist' I don't reckon to be anything like as strong as him, so I'm not going to bend or break things like he can.

I get people on my tours on race bikes. They don't have enough space in the frame for the tyres I deem sensible, or guards at all, the gears aren't low enough and the luggage is sometime cobbled together and compromised by poor heel clearance, but they don't break. So I don't think touring bikes should HAVE to be heavy, just because a tiny minority of the people who buy them will be lard-asses with no riding finesse who haul stupid amounts of camping gear over horrible tracks!


You can tour on almost any bike if you want to. But a "touring bike", if it is marketed as such, should be able to excel at touring with reasonably heavy loads. When I tour I usually end up carrying more than my own stuff because family members are not as strong. I take the tent, two sleeping bags, two mats, locks for three bikes, my own clothes, etc.... So four panniers. If that can be done with a lighter frameset and without losing robustness and stability I might be interested. Not that a lighter frame would make much difference with the bike fully loaded. It would just make it a bit more sprightly when I use it for other things. (My tourer is a ten year old Thorn Club Tour).

Wheels are something I won't compromise on. Long ago I did tour on wheels that broke, so now I will only tour (with panniers) with strong wheels. For me that means 36 spokes etc. So not race wheels.
MikeDee
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Re: Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

Post by MikeDee »

ehelifecycle wrote:as this thread has moved on to CF quite a bit, this is worth a watch


It’s interesting that Raul (the expert in the video) says that voids in a steerer tubing are bad, yet the bicycle industry (to my knowledge) does no nondestructive examination to detect voids. You can also get inclusions in metal tubing too, so there is that. Seems like using a proper safety factor is important to allow for some amount of flaws, and stupid light forks are bad. Maybe all forks should be NDE’d.
Brucey
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Re: Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

Post by Brucey »

CJ wrote: ...The occasional bumpy track and some gravel roads, hmmm let me see... Paris - Roubaix anyone? Cyclo-cross? And what about Mr Muscle's actual muscles? As a 'mere tourist' I don't reckon to be anything like as strong as him, so I'm not going to bend or break things like he can.

I get people on my tours on race bikes. They don't have enough space in the frame for the tyres I deem sensible, or guards at all, the gears aren't low enough and the luggage is sometime cobbled together and compromised by poor heel clearance, but they don't break. So I don't think touring bikes should HAVE to be heavy, just because a tiny minority of the people who buy them will be lard-asses with no riding finesse who haul stupid amounts of camping gear over horrible tracks!


with a few exceptions the kinds of folk that go on organised tours on race bikes are not experienced tourists, who have had plenty of experience of touring. I'd expect any bike that was still (complete with luggage and rider) below its rated weight limit not to break immediately. It does not mean that it'll last very long, or handle correctly, have the right gears, have the right tyres, be terribly reliable in the medium term, be resistant to accidental damage, or easily fixed should it break.

Having a lightweight bicycle is nice, for sure, and like you say touring bikes don't have to be heavy, but a couple of lbs saved isn't going to make much of a difference on a tour. So small is the difference that in many people's view it isn't worth trading anything much from the list above in order to save a few lbs.

cheers
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bigjim
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Re: Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

Post by bigjim »

There is always the halfway option. Not a tourer or a racer. but you may have to look at the used market. The Classic Clubmans bike. Which is more the do all bike IMO. My Raleigh Clubman seems to tick all the boxes. I use it on club runs and hostel tours. I don't know what the modern equivalent is.
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