Touring bicycle frame weight - info gathering

ehelifecycle · Post by **ehelifecycle** » 29 Sep 2017, 8:38pm

Current database here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lsixuRRqxo1VjgXXkHE-HkTXa4qMTVcyZb50QX-tebA/edit?usp=sharing
Hi

I'm trying to collate a bit of a frame weight database regarding currently (or not so current) available touring bicycles; in part this is due to some recent reviews I have read where many bike get critercised for being too heavy.

I've have seen a few other articles linked to this subject

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12940290
https://forums.adventurecycling.org/index.php?topic=13220.0
https://www.cyclingabout.com/how-much-does-bike-and-gear-weight-slow-you-down/
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/commuting-touring-ride-reports/how-heavy-touring-bike-before-after-loaded-171503.html

let me know what you have and what is the frame weight please

thanks

Brucey · Post by **Brucey** » 29 Sep 2017, 10:12pm

I won't say it doesn't matter what the frame weight is, but I will say it doesn't matter in the way that folk think, in that I wouldn't want a frame that was built too light when packing a load.

A good touring bike (with a steel frameset) might weigh about 26-30lbs or so, of which the frameset might weigh between 6lbs and about 8-1/2lbs, depending on the frame size and the intended load to be carried. So there is 20-odd lbs of 'other stuff' on the bike to make it heavy or not. Variations in the frame weight don't really contribute that much.

Reviews of touring bikes that complain that the bike 'feels heavy' or not are mostly a load of nonsense; you don't buy such a bike to 'feel light' you buy it to be comfortable and to carry a given load. Because of the relatively feeble attempts to make frames of different sizes the same stiffness, there is often more variation in ride feel with sizes in a given frame model than there is between models.

The manufacturers have weight specifications if you are interested. I have occasionally weighed a frameset but the weight of it is not as important as how it rides, in fact.

cheers

meic · Post by **meic** » 29 Sep 2017, 10:24pm

Surly Long Haul Trucker 26" 62cm, uncut steerer.
Frame and fork 3,970g with headset 4,090g.

Added later.
Frame 2,800g
Forks 1,170g

foxyrider · Post by **foxyrider** » 30 Sep 2017, 8:59am

I'm sort of in agreement with Brucey - my alu Focus Mares is currently 10.5kg built (11speed Campy) - almost 2kg less than its off the peg weight (10speed Tiagra). It's a gravel/cross/commute/tour machine bought for durability not lightness. (includes disk brakes, dyno hub, guards, rack)

Compared to my other bikes the ride is 'dull' and slow - measurably so. OTOH it's predictable and stable on any surface. Geometry will make more difference than a few grams in terms of feel. Although it's now lighter the actual ride and feel of the bike is the same as original which is what really matters.

Bonefishblues · Post by **Bonefishblues** » 30 Sep 2017, 9:00am

I don't know what any of my frames weigh. I have a rough idea of what each bike weighs.

iow · Post by **iow** » 30 Sep 2017, 9:21am

spa audax frame (56cm) 1920 gm, fork (carbon/alloy. uncut 300mm) 582 gm
claude butler dalesman frame (631 flavour, 58cm) 2380 gm, steel fork (cut to 250mm, 520 blades) 975 gm

Brucey · Post by **Brucey** » 30 Sep 2017, 9:27am

foxyrider wrote:I'm sort of in agreement with Brucey - my alu Focus Mares is currently 10.5kg built (11speed Campy) - almost 2kg less than its off the peg weight (10speed Tiagra). It's a gravel/cross/commute/tour machine bought for durability not lightness. (includes disk brakes, dyno hub, guards, rack)

Compared to my other bikes the ride is 'dull' and slow - measurably so. OTOH it's predictable and stable on any surface. Geometry will make more difference than a few grams in terms of feel. Although it's now lighter the actual ride and feel of the bike is the same as original which is what really matters.

I suspect that there are plenty of other bikes (eg with traditional steel frames) which might weigh heavier on the scales, but actually ride better on the road.

cheers

pwa · Post by **pwa** » 30 Sep 2017, 9:47am

I know you can tour on any bike, and you could certainly do it on a Focus Mares. But it is not a "tourer". A tourer is designed with loaded touring as its reason for being, and has very low gears, longish wheelbase and can handle heavy loads if required. The FM (a nice bike with the ability to take on various roles) is a crosser. It is bound to be lighter than a tourer.

Heltor Chasca · Post by **Heltor Chasca** » 30 Sep 2017, 10:36am

I'm not sure if I understand the point of the exercise. 'Just' the frame gives an incomplete picture. By the time you've fitted your steering bits, sitting bits, drive bits, rolling bits, scaffolding, luggage, water, media, food etc you spread your data into far reaching vagaries that, to me anyhow, don't matter.

I would never be able to fully load up my Audax bike or ali MTB in the same way I load up my Surly DT or Surly Big Dummy due to frame design and purpose. All of these I have used touring in one sense or another.

Your willing data-providers may be very few and far between, as I can't imagine many people will have unused touring frames hanging about ready to be weighed. (And even fewer people may be keen to strip their bikes for the exercise)

Happy to give you the weights of the complete bikes without luggage etc.

meic · Post by **meic** » 30 Sep 2017, 12:15pm

as I can't imagine many people will have unused touring frames hanging about ready to be weighed.

But some of us with similar interests would have weighed them before we built the bikes.
What I cant understand is why some people are not happy with the idea of somebody collecting this information, what dirty hidden secret is it going to reveal that more than one person has posted in an attempt to dissuade people from continuing with this search for data?

Cunobelin · Post by **Cunobelin** » 30 Sep 2017, 12:17pm

Depends what you want

I cracked several lighter frames including a couple where tours were abandoned.

I eventually settled with a Thorn Nomad with Rohloff

Heavy, solid, dependable and boringly predictable when steering under a full touring load

Exactly what I wanted

meic · Post by **meic** » 30 Sep 2017, 12:36pm

You forgot to include the figures for the weight of the frame.

Heltor Chasca · Post by **Heltor Chasca** » 30 Sep 2017, 12:41pm

meic wrote:
as I can't imagine many people will have unused touring frames hanging about ready to be weighed.

But some of us with similar interests would have weighed them before we built the bikes.
What I cant understand is why some people are not happy with the idea of somebody collecting this information, what dirty hidden secret is it going to reveal that more than one person has posted in an attempt to dissuade people from continuing with this search for data?

I get that. What did you deduce on finding out the weight of your frame? I just can't fathom out WHY. To ME, I am quite happy being oblivious. Is it important? Why don't Surly, for example, publish these weights? Frame size will affect the result as will individual welds or even disparity in tube thickness due to QC. Cube publishes weights but doesn't specify if it is the full build or just the frame. Or frame and forks. Ambiguous.

That was all I was getting at and interested in knowing why. I tried to put a positive slant on it and offer the rideable weights of my bikes. All of which 'tour'. But all are VERY different in weight so I can't imagine what the data will prove.

I'm fairly sure no 'dirty hidden secret' (as you put it rather strangely) will be revealed, but I'm sure telling us what the data is for, may encourage a few more submissions.

Perhaps the OP could tell us what the collected data will be used for.

meic · Post by **meic** » 30 Sep 2017, 12:48pm

To add to the knowledge of what different frames weigh.

my old 1982 531 steel Holdsworth 25" frame, Audax "style" bike.

Frame 2425g
Forks 760g

It may have been a couple of grams heavier when made but has lost some weight due to rust! :lol:

pwa · Post by **pwa** » 30 Sep 2017, 12:51pm

I have in the back of my head that a steel framed (more or less) traditional tourer (Spa, or Thorn Club Tour, etc) will have a frame that weighs about 2lbs more than a lightweight steel frame not designed for touring. A bit more again for a particularly heavy duty beast like a Thorn Nomad.

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