Why are dynamo front lights so expensive?

[Sweep]

PS:
This is it.
http://www.lighthouse-torches.com/p/L-H ... ch---3xAAA

thanks = seems to be a stockist just down the road from me.

It is amazing how lights have come on (I did the dynamo on a light from Lidl that costs £6.50) - hence the manufacturers' desperate attempts to boost prices with fripperies and gimmicks.

[Gattonero]

Off topic a bit.
We were in town yesterday, and I bought an LED torch made by Light House for only £8.99 including three AAA batteries.
Hugely powerful and frighteningly bright. Beam way out to maybe 200yds.
210 Lumens
Absolutely stunning.
...

I don't think it's off topic.
But it's what I'm saying: how do you make a good light for £9? Perhaps this is sold under the real cost to make it, while B&M makes those lights in Europe so the starting price is higher, yet you can have decent dynamo lights front & rear for £50 .

I've stopped believing in those lights that claim one million lumens or what not. A humble 60 lux with a proper lens & light reflector does a better job in giving a focused light where you need it without dazzling the other road users. Don't get me wrong, for Mtb it's useful to upcycle a small battery torch with one of those double clip brackets, but it's a different scenario

[Mick F]

OK.
Not off topic I suppose, but if you can get a VERY good light for £8.99 all it would need is a decent lens and a bit of circuitry to convert the AC from the dynamo to DC for the light. Let us say £15 tops.

[Gattonero]

I think there is a reason why the lens/reflector of dynamo front lights are of a certain size, and those battery torches are smaller.

[Brucey]

absolutely. It is very easy to design and manufacture a crude parabolic reflector and it will make a beam that seems very bright (albeit in a tiny splodge) for a short while. But you will be blinding oncomers, the light pattern is too small to see properly where you are going, and claims of '3W' are almost certainly in the land of delusional nonsense.

Think about it, if that lamp were really making 3W, it would be drawing ~0.67A and a set of alkaline AAA batteries would last about an hour. IME what normally happens is that the rating is a lie; also, after the lamp has been on for a short while the thing gets hot enough and the batteries start to fall over, such that current is held back significantly and actual light output drops to about half of whatever it was to start with. In total darkness you may not notice this happening because your eyes will accommodate to the light levels available.

There is no guarantee that the thing will be waterproof or won't get shaken to bits either.

Such things may appear to be impressive but they are a long way from being a proper bike light.

If you wanted to run one from a hub generator you would need a reliable means of regulating the current through the LED such that it didn't blow up, and a whole bunch of other things to make it into a decent bike light.

I agree that good dynamo lights are more likely to be 'feature heavy and expensive' (with features I don't either want or need) than to be very simple, very bright, with good shaped beams at a decent price. I think this is mostly marketing garbage in fact; it ought to be possible to make a basic but very bright light with a good beam and sell it for about £25, even in low volumes. It wouldn't have sensors, USB outputs, standlights, daytime lights or any of the other garbage, it'd just be a light, and I'd be fine with that....

I can buy one for about £15 that is almost what I want, but it isn't as bright as it could be.

cheers

[Mick F]

Sorry guys, I don't agree with you at all.
Bright lights can be bright I agree, and good lenses can direct the light and focus it well, I agree.

However, it can't cost a fortune to produce a light with a good brilliance and a good lens ..................................... but it does.

This torch I've shown is focus-able and will go from fine spot to a wide flood light. It could be easily directed to the road without dazzling anyone and still give a good light to ride by. I'm very very very impressed with it.

I have an Exposure Sirius front light costing £80+ ................ and this torch for £8.99 knocks it into a cocked hat.
http://www.halfords.com/cycling/bike-li ... bike-light

[Gattonero]

You have two answers there.

One is that Exposure is made in the UK and has top quality batteries, weights less than 100gr yet packing 2900mAh of battery.
The second, is that you always have to keep those battery lights dipped down. Note how a B&M dynamo light has to be properly horizontal to give the light beam in the right place


(btw, I'm not Vegan )

I own one of those cheap Led torches with 18650 battery, it makes a good amount of light but I don't find it good for road use. And I'm not even talking of those "1 million lumens" with separate battery pack, those too can be disappointing as far as the light beam. Power is nothing without control.

[Gattonero]

...
I agree that good dynamo lights are more likely to be 'feature heavy and expensive' (with features I don't either want or need) than to be very simple, very bright, with good shaped beams at a decent price. I think this is mostly marketing garbage in fact; it ought to be possible to make a basic but very bright light with a good beam and sell it for about £25, even in low volumes. It wouldn't have sensors, USB outputs, standlights, daytime lights or any of the other garbage, it'd just be a light, and I'd be fine with that....

I can buy one for about £15 that is almost what I want, but it isn't as bright as it could be.

cheers

Agree that could make basic dynamo lights for less money but brighter. And could do without some features as well, but the Standlight is absolutely useful, in fact is what has made a big jump in safety and altogether with brighter and more efficient lights and generators, got more people going back to the "old" dynamo lights.

[old_windbag]

but the Standlight is absolutely useful, in fact is what has made a big jump in safety and altogether with brighter and more efficient lights and generators

I couldn't imagine designing a dynamo light without this feature personally I feel it is essential especially if the front light is not accompanied by any other blinkies or similar( but lets not venture into the visibility of a cyclist with no light ). But a standard design of light can easily accommodate each of the optional extras such as usb outlet etc at manufacture by having them present in pcb design but not populated, the casing/enclosure can made for optional selection on the production line according to similar build requirements. So you could make a modular range of lights that consumers purchase according to features and are designed for manufacture.

The problem I feel is the price. The price we pay for a cyo premium for example includes the parts costs clearly plus the markup for manufacturer and retailer. But I think a critical factor in the cost is also the non recurring engineering cost and manufacture cost per lamp. I'm not sure what quantity B+M sell the cyo premium in but it's one of a whole product range. The quantities may be much less than mickf's torch, so the engineering/manufacture cost is a bigger factor. The overheads of B+M's facilities may mean the true engineering cost may be £500+ per engineer day and the development may have been several people over several months. That has to be recouped over a specific forecast of likely units sold, if less than forecast then a problem, more then all's rosy. So theres more to this than just a view to component cost and making something much cheaper.

On the LED front I've looked into the data for the LED supposedly used in the cyo premium( an osram? ). There is around 0.5v of forward voltage that can be modulated to result in lower/higher luminous flux and the related variation in forward current. So the torch manufacturer using a similar style of LED( i.e. cree ) has the scope to lower the luminous flux with a resultant longer battery time. Alternatively give it the beans for super bright beam, we see this on some torches with several operating modes. The LED's tend to come in grades with a nominal luminous flux for each, depending on which grade chosen there could be a few 10's of percent difference in lumens for the same forward current. Again the grade is likely going to reflect in a higher/lower price. I find this all quite interesting but will stop there as it is probably of no interest to others.

(btw, I'm not Vegan )

I do like to see peoples book titles it paints some great images of who they are . I like it on the news they always have to place a politician in front of their bookshelf( they are learned people ), but have seen a few with hitler,third reich and witchcraft books. I like to see "the joy of sex" crop up on the news in such an interview. Perhaps a thread should be started to post a photo of your bookshelf .

[Gattonero]

There's a couple of books about Glam photography, and the likes.
Mainly history/WW2/Heritage places/Sci-Fi/Anime&Manga/music. Hardly any novel, especially new ones.

[Gattonero]

Btw, I would add that just as the hubdynamos, their lights are keepers.
Though modern rechargeable battery lights are much improved and do not make much waste in use (their production in the far East is still questionable!), they still won't compare to the lifespan of a modern LED dynamo light, I am glad there isn't yet a "fashion" of a new dynamo light model every year.

But now, if Exposure would add a damn "on-off" button and side visibility to their Revo light....

[old_windbag]

There's a couple of books about Glam photography

I shall have to zoom in . Definitely no novels on my bookshelf all tech books, wildlife, photography, maths and sciences. No politics either . Glam photography definitely beats that.

[old_windbag]

I am glad there isn't yet a "fashion" of a new dynamo light model every year.

If the market was the size of the smartphone market I think we'd have just that, fortunately it isn't. The turnover of new models every 3 months or so is crazy.

[Mick F]

You have two answers there.

One is that Exposure is made in the UK and has top quality batteries, weights less than 100gr yet packing 2900mAh of battery.
The second, is that you always have to keep those battery lights dipped down.

The Exposure Sirius is just a torch with a USB chareable battery. Beam spread is just like a torch. It'll go for an hour or so on full bright. The £8.99 torch can give the same beam pattern and you can take spare batteries with you.

The Sirius costs £90 and isn't as good as the £8.99 torch .............. not half as good I reckon.
To say that I'm disappointed with the Sirius, is a bit of an understatement.

BTW, Sirius weighs 71g and the £8.99 torch weighs 125g

[Paulatic]

Btw, I would add that just as the hubdynamos, their lights are keepers.
Though modern rechargeable battery lights are much improved and do not make much waste in use (their production in the far East is still questionable!), they still won't compare to the lifespan of a modern LED dynamo light, I am glad there isn't yet a "fashion" of a new dynamo light model every year.

True
A dynamo light is for life not just a winter.