Reynolds '531 C' for use on small touring frame?

[sun ra]

I'm looking at a options for a small touring frame for my wife. Being only 5' 3" tall she only rides frames with no more than a 51cm top tube length. I've already purchased a frame that I think is suitable built from Reynolds 531 Competition - built with canti studs and room for 28mm tyres under full mudguards - but I'm worried the Competition tubes might not be stout enough.

Once built the bike will be loaded at the rear only as it does not have braze ons for a low rider (although we might well include a bar bag of some sort). The sort of loads carried will be everything apart from a tent and cooking equipment. When required I can carry those extras on my Mercian KoM Built from Reynolds 531 Super Tourist.

Would it might be safer in terms of the load the bike can carry, if the frame were built from a heavier tube set (perhaps 531st or 725, etc)?

[Gattonero]

My main concern would be dents in the tubing while on transit in trains, flights, coach, and the things like that.
I assume the weight of the rider is fairly low, say something like 60kg; and the bags+equipment been less than 10kg? If used wisely, I cannot see a big problem on a frame that has been built properly, like said I'd be concenrned about the handlebars hitting the TT, or rust forming inside the frame.
Both the problems can be minimized with a TT protector and inside the frame spraying a rust-inhibitor like Tectane Wax or the usual Waxoil

[PhilD28]

It is on the light side for any form of loaded touring. A rear loaded rack might give a tail wagging the dog feeling (mine did) when stood up climbing due to the lightweight seat stays.
I used a 21" 531C day ride bike throughout the 80's and toured on it with a small rear rack and two small panniers for a few years and concluded it was too light for the job in that size (I weigh 65kg). The frame was really well built by Dave Yates, but I ended up getting him to build me something more suitable in custom gauge tubing that was, and still is, perfect.

I would say probably OK with a decent sized saddlebag and bar bag but not much more.

[Gattonero]

It is on the light side for any form of loaded touring. A rear loaded rack might give a tail wagging the dog feeling (mine did) when stood up climbing due to the lightweight seat stays.
I used a 21" 531C day ride bike throughout the 80's and toured on it with a small rear rack and two small panniers for a few years and concluded it was too light for the job in that size (I weigh 65kg). The frame was really well built by Dave Yates, but I ended up getting him to build me something more suitable in custom gauge tubing that was, and still is, perfect.

I would say probably OK with a decent sized saddlebag and bar bag but not much more.

65kg+baggage makes for a weight that should be the limit for 531C?
This rider is 5ft 3" so the frame will be smaller and the rider lighter

[Norman H]

I suspect that 531c would be fine. Your wife's height is not the only consideration, as others have pointed out and I'm sure you're aware.

Is this is an off the peg frame?

Most OTP frames are built for people of average weight plus a fair safety margin built in. Depending on your wife's particular circumstances, I would have thought an extra 10-15kg of luggage would be a reasonable expectation.

I'm 1.65m and weigh 55kg. I ride a variety of old and modern steel frames. The old 531c frames, with inch and inch and an eighth tubing, hit a particular sweet spot for me in terms of comfort and ride quality. In the past, when there were no alternatives, we happily toured on such frames using rear rack and a bar bag.

Finally don't neglect the rear rack. The stiffness of the rack can be as important as the stiffness of the frame. A decent Tubus rack, or similar, would be a sound investment.

[LollyKat]

I have a 21" King of Mercia touring frame from 1987 built in 531c. This is the traditional diamond frame with horizontal top tube. I opted for Mercian's touring spec with the largest chain and seat stays, and cantilever braze-ons, and using 32mm tyres. It's seen hard use and taken moderately heavy loads without any problems - regularly carrying 12kg of work tools in rear panniers and up to 15kg in supermarket shopping. I sometimes used a bar bag but never front panniers as personally I think that's just too much baggage. For the record I'm 167cm tall and weigh 54kg.

The Mercian replaced an earlier Wester Ross tourer built from 'standard' 531. Though theoretically it should have been 'stronger', in practice it was very whippy and had a tendency to shimmy. Tubing is not the whole story.

[PhilD28]

Well it's certainly worth trying and 531C does have a nice ride quality when built by a decent frame builder.

If it doesn't work out get back to me I have very nice Paul Donahugh 531 st touring frame for 26" wheels that was custom built for my wife who is 5' 3". It's been hung up in the workshop for a few years doing nothing. A decent offer would secure it and it was re sprayed just before she retired it.

[PhilD28]

"65kg+baggage makes for a weight that should be the limit for 531C?
This rider is 5ft 3" so the frame will be smaller and the rider lighter"

Yes it should be OK. The only problem I can foresee are the seat stays which in 531C are only 0.5 thick compared to 531 st which are 0.9 thick and hence the potential for the tail wagging the dog if using the bike with panniers.

I once had a discussion with Tony Oliver about using 531C for touring frames when I was having problems with mine and he was decidedly unimpressed with the idea on anything other than really small frames or day ride bikes. But given that the OP has the frame there's nothing wrong with building it up and seeing how it goes, it might suit her very well if she is light.

[amediasatex]

I have a 21" King of Mercia touring frame from 1987 built in 531c. This is the traditional diamond frame with horizontal top tube. I opted for Mercian's touring spec with the largest chain and seat stays, and cantilever braze-ons, and using 32mm tyres. It's seen hard use and taken moderately heavy loads without any problems - regularly carrying 12kg of work tools in rear panniers and up to 15kg in supermarket shopping. I sometimes used a bar bag but never front panniers as personally I think that's just too much baggage. For the record I'm 167cm tall and weigh 54kg.

^Thats a great example of why you need to account for the total weight not just he luggage or the rider in isolation, I was reading that and nodding along, as I also have a 531c 21in Mercian KOM, and then I started to frown at the carrying 15kg bit as I can certainly start to feel the impact of just 5-10kg on the back of mine, and then I kept reading... the poster weights 54kg, Aha! well I weigh 73kg before I've put any clothes on!

LollyKat could pile on 20kg of baggage and only just be equivalent to me in my PJ's, so throw some more clothes on, some shoes, a plastic hat etc. and I'm well in excess of that weight before I even strap any luggage on. I know bags on the back will have a different impact on ride feel and how much sway you might get out of the back end, but the frame still has to take the weight overall. My 531c bikes can be a little flexy even with no luggage, but that's part of why I like them, and I certainly don't ride as hard or aggressively when loaded up as I do when not so it's not as big of a problem as you might think.

I do actually have a 531ST bike as well, but I never really use that to carry anything other than a small saddle bag, that one is stouter tubing as I use it as a SS/Fixed bike and it gets a bit more of a hard time in terms of pedalling input and being muscled around a bit more so riding style comes into play as well.

Personally I wouldn't discount 531c or similar lightish tubesets based on that alone, the build and details can have almost as much effect, but I tend to pack fairly light if possible anyway. Definitely worth making sure you use a sturdy rack though, and making sure panniers are mounted as securely as possible to avoid bouncing/flapping/swinging etc.

[fastpedaller]

I wonder what your reasons are eg. maybe to get a more compliant frame so it's not a jarring ride? If it's to save weight (especially with a smaller frame) it's worth considering how much would be saved as it may only be 50g?

[531colin]

If the frame is ready to go, bung it together and try it. I suspect it will be fine.....as people keep saying, many heavier people have ridden and raced on bigger 531c frames.
I have ridden alongside more than one Bob Jackson 531c tourer, although I don't know details of stays or esoteric stuff like that.

[fastpedaller]

I wonder what your reasons are eg. maybe to get a more compliant frame so it's not a jarring ride? If it's to save weight (especially with a smaller frame) it's worth considering how much would be saved as it may only be 50g?

Oops! My skim reading meant I missed the fact you already have it - Colin's suggestion seems good.

[andrew_s]

If the frame is ready to go, bung it together and try it. I suspect it will be fine.

This.

I've toured on 531c (6'1", 80kg + luggage, with low riders to spread the load).
Riding out of the saddle was a bit disconcerting for the first couple of days, but after that I had no problems.
The bike was one of a batch of audax frames that St John Street had built when testing the market for the Thorn brand, came badged as Argos.

[pwa]

My wife used to tour on Reynolds 753 (standard, i.e. narrow tubes) with no problems. She is about 5ft 3. The only thing with 531c will be to avoid knocking it about in transit.

[Brucey]

because the frame is small it is likely to be just fine even with a fair load on. Like Colin says, why not try it?

cheers