Help with frame identification.

[Garyfarrar]

I have a fame that I bought on ebay a few years ago and I have been unable to identify the maker so I'm hoping there my be somebody out there who can point me in the right direction. It has Nervex pro lugs, including the bottom bracket shell, under which is stamped a four figure frame number. It has a curved rear brake bridge, Campagnolo dropouts and what I believe is a Wagner fork crown. There is a small lug on the down tube to prevent the gear shifters for sliding down and the gap in between the holes for the head badge is 57mm which I believe matches the holes on Holdsworth, Claud Butler, Freddie Grubb and maybe Viking head badges (and probably many others.) My hope is to find out what it is and have it professionally resprayed with correct decals etc.

[Brucey]

although it resembles a CB or a Holdsworth (both used curved brake bridges) if the frame number has four digits then it probably isn't either; more digits required I think.

The exact way the dropouts and gear braze ons is done is a good way of identifying a frame, more photos would be useful.

cheers

[Garyfarrar]

some more detailed pictures.

[Ugly]

I just went and measured the gap between rivets of the head badge on my 1968 Holdsworth Mistral and they are at 65mm centres.
The problem with the identification of frames is that there were so many small builders all using similar lug sets and top eyes so the was little difference between their products. I have owned a couple of Allin frames (a Croydon builder) that looked the same as your frame. Then there were the bike shops that badged up outside built frames, not just cheap ones but high-end built to spec jobs too. For example a Geoffrey Butler Frame could have been built by a number of builders including Mike Coward, Roberts or Cliff Shrubb. The advice I had when trying to find who build my fixed machine was 'put your own name on it and enjoy riding it'

[Roadster]

Ugly makes a valid point. It certainly has the lugs, dropouts, design and build of a quality vintage bike, while weighing the frame might give you an idea of the tubing. You may never identify the maker but that needn't detract from the pleasure of owning and riding it.
We're so accustomed to seeing bikes completely plastered with makers' names and marketing decals of every description that one without them looks unfinished or even undressed, yet I for one can live without such unnecessary visual distractions. I think it makes a refreshing change to see a lovely old machine which isn't trying to be an advertisement hoarding.

[Garyfarrar]

I think you're both probably right in what you said, plus it'll save me forking out for a paint job. Being a "John Doe" doesn't detract from the pleasure of riding it.

[fastpedaller]

Is it my eyes/computer, but in the last shot the bike is blue, in all the others orange?!

[Garyfarrar]

Don't worry your eyes are fine, it was blue when I got it, now orange.

[PT1029]

The pip on the down tube to stop the gear levers sliding down is the same as on my Holdsworth Mistral (mine is prob late 1970/just 1980's frame, I got it 2nd hand in 1982 or so, with a straight rear brake bridge, so yours is probably older).
Top tube cable stops suggest older than my frame.
Fork crown possibly quite generic, as it looks the same as I had on my 1978 Dawes Galaxy.
The long taper at the top of the seat stays could be Holdsworth, certainly not Dawes.
My Holdsworth frame number has 6 digits. Somewhere on this forum there is a thread about dating Holdworths from the frame number, so you might find some info there.
I'm guessing a TDC headset (I had one on an old Viking 531 frame, top race had no spanner flats, 2 (or more?) holes on the side for a peg/pin spanner).

Are the parts original do you know?
Do my eyes (+ zoom) spot Mafac center pulls, Campag Rally rear gear, later (1980's?) style campag gear levers. Stronglight 99 cranks would be 1980's. I would guess these are later than the top tube cable stops how ever. There again, the parts might not be original.

Probably more questions than answers!

[Garyfarrar]

All the components have been fitted by myself apart from the headset which was fitted when i bought the frameset and you've got them spot on which is impressive. The rear mech is a nouvo gran sport fitted with a rally cage, (48/36 chainrings and a 14/28 freewheel makes riding it much easier living in the Staffordshire moorlands) .

[Garyfarrar]

Classic lightweights website has a copy of the TDC catalogue from the 60's and the headset looks like the Italia model.

[VeloFellow54]

Very late with this, but I am almost certain that this frame is a 1958 Holdsworth built Claud Butler. Check spacing of rivet holes for the head badge. Check if it has a boss for a lamp bracket on the fork blade. Holdsworth were producing something like 4500 CB frames each year from about August 1958. I can help with details of correct decals etc if you plan to restore it

[Brucey]

I have a 1958 CB (which I have owned since before the internet was invented) and I have always wondered if it is a Holdsworth built one or the last of the original ones. I suppose the frame number ought to tell me (these days) but I the bike is presently hanging up in an inaccessible location and I don't have a note of it. It has chromed forks and chromed ends and it fitted with 'Agrati' rear dropouts, which have an unusual thread in the gear hanger.

cheers

[robmowbray]

Holdsworth (?) frame

Can anyone help to identify my late fathers old Holdsworth(?) frame model and approx age?

The frame was bought second hand (?) from Welling Cycles, Kent late 1960’s / early 1970’s and my father had it stove enamled and fitted with custom made wheels and Campagnolo/Huret parts.

My dad was 6’+, so the game is quite large - 24” (down tube), 23.5 (top tube). The distance between the screws on the headplate is approx 6cm

The stamped serial no. is 67138K. The BB also has '3' stamped on the opposite side.

The lugs are quite distinctive with long spear points and a ‘D’ profile. I attach a series of photos of the main features.

The bike was decommisioned in the early 80's and stored it in the garage. I came across the frame and various boxes of parts after his recent death and would like to see if I could resore it to its former glory. Any advice about its possible origins may help me make a more sympathetic job.

Many thanks in advance, Rob

bottom bracket serial no. stamp

[Ugly]

If it's a Holdsworth then it's Mistral, the spear point lugs and wrap over stays were cutting edge style in the early 60s. I have a similar one from 1968.