Campagnolo 8 speed. Tight fit.

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9494arnold
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Campagnolo 8 speed. Tight fit.

Postby 9494arnold » 22 Oct 2017, 6:27pm

I have been running a Campag 8 in a frame which l think was intanded for a 6 or 7. As a compromise l have blocked the top gear off. (The chain was rattling the frame)I have given it a serious looking looking at today (after a few miles on the Trike!) and discovered the cunning way Campag don't let you take the spindle out these days without catching the pawls and pawl springs :shock: :roll: . (I did half expect this having been warned)

Anyhow having got past this trauma, it had been my intention to respace the hub on the axle so as l can use Top without it catching the frame. Done it numerous times on old Campag , and there does seem to be plenty of room on the non drive side to allow this , but the new hub appears to have 3 cones as opposed to the normal 2, one of which seems to be an integral part of the axle . If this is the case l don't think l am going to be arable to do wahat l want to.

Am l right, or is the "middle" cone an interference fit on the axle (and if it is) how do you move it in a non destructive manner?
I have managed to re assemble "as was" so so far nothing lost .

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Gattonero
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Re: Campagnolo 8 speed. Tight fit.

Postby Gattonero » 22 Oct 2017, 7:19pm

You need to be more specific, or better post a picture: there are several types of Campagnolo hubs for cassette sprockets, and their fittings are different.

Tor example, this is a classic type of 8 speed on cup/cone bearings, a similar design has been done running on cartridge bearings and does have different locknuts.
Image

On this one, you can see the Rh locknut has a 2mm allen grub screw, which holds it in place as it goes to a dead stop. The adjustment is done on the opposite side, via two 14mm cone spanners.
On this hub, you could respace and increase the clearance of the Rh side, via a 12mm ID washer. This however will dish out the wheel, and you will have to increase the tension of the Rh spokes, often this is detrimental for the balance of the wheel.
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...

Keezx
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Re: Campagnolo 8 speed. Tight fit.

Postby Keezx » 22 Oct 2017, 7:30pm

8 Speed on 126 mm spacing is not a sensible thing to do, unless with a very large cog which leans over 4 mm to the spoke side.
There is a reason why this became 130 mm with the introduction of 8 speed.

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Gattonero
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Re: Campagnolo 8 speed. Tight fit.

Postby Gattonero » 22 Oct 2017, 7:56pm

Keezx wrote:8 Speed on 126 mm spacing is not a sensible thing to do, unless with a very large cog which leans over 4 mm to the spoke side.
There is a reason why this became 130 mm with the introduction of 8 speed.


OTOH, it's pretty easy to stretch a steel frame 2mm per side
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...

9494arnold
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Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 3:13pm

Re: Campagnolo 8 speed. Tight fit.

Postby 9494arnold » 22 Oct 2017, 9:14pm

I think l have the hub in the picture.
The apparently fixed third cone prevents the axle from moving across, so your only option is to stretch the offside chain and seatstay and reduce the amout of axle engaged in the dropout. The frame is quite stiff, it's a Flying Gate which has Twin seatstays , plus it's got vertical dropouts. I am already springing as much as l dare to get the hub in. I hoped to respace the drive side and put narrower lock nut on non drive side and possibly shorten the axle marginally on the non drive side.

I do have another Campag Hub, that seems to have screw in ends. Think it's 8 speed too. Have to say l fear l am out of my depth! I might just stick at 7 and keep top gear for show!! And stick to Shimano in future, which l understand !! :cry: :mrgreen:

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Gattonero
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Re: Campagnolo 8 speed. Tight fit.

Postby Gattonero » 22 Oct 2017, 10:44pm

9494arnold wrote:I think l have the hub in the picture.
The apparently fixed third cone prevents the axle from moving across, so your only option is to stretch the offside chain and seatstay and reduce the amout of axle engaged in the dropout. The frame is quite stiff, it's a Flying Gate which has Twin seatstays , plus it's got vertical dropouts. I am already springing as much as l dare to get the hub in. I hoped to respace the drive side and put narrower lock nut on non drive side and possibly shorten the axle marginally on the non drive side.

I do have another Campag Hub, that seems to have screw in ends. Think it's 8 speed too. Have to say l fear l am out of my depth! I might just stick at 7 and keep top gear for show!! And stick to Shimano in future, which l understand !! :cry: :mrgreen:


No steel frame is "that" stiff, especially one that is not built with modern heat-treated alloy steels, to be respaced 2mm each side.
You will have to take this into accounts if you are planning to use components that are not period-correct with the frame. Since this is a particular one, you may ask the builder to have the dropouts sorted to give you more clearance. An 8 speed setup is very unlikely to work in a 126mm spaced frame, and especially Campagnolo which has a relatively wider cassette.
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...

Brucey
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Re: Campagnolo 8 speed. Tight fit.

Postby Brucey » 23 Oct 2017, 12:19am

IMHO if you want to play these games with respacing you are much better off using a shimano hub or a shimano-alike freehub. Such hubs can be fitted with a 7s cassette body and respaced to give least dish etc without beggaring up your frame.

The campag hub you have is such a dismal design (in terms of respacing the hub; basically you can't...) that I stopped using campag hubs for about two decades.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

9494arnold
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Re: Campagnolo 8 speed. Tight fit.

Postby 9494arnold » 23 Oct 2017, 10:09am

Brucey l think you have more or less confirmed the conclusion I had come to. :?
The whole set up works impeccably on the 7 you just can't use top. Goes like a rocket despite the fact the engine's knackered. Think l'll just stick at that. Frames in too good a nick to start getting the framebuilder involved (although he is a friend) .
Thanks to all for your input. :!: :wink:

hamster
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Re: Campagnolo 8 speed. Tight fit.

Postby hamster » 24 Oct 2017, 4:22pm

One other point to consider is that later 126mm frames (generally all 130mm) have a flattened chainstay inner edge to give chain clearance for top gear. It sounds as though yours doesn't.
It depends on how much you want to fiddle with everything for the sake of an extra gear. Older frames can be modified so far and no further...

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Gattonero
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Re: Campagnolo 8 speed. Tight fit.

Postby Gattonero » 28 Oct 2017, 12:33pm

hamster wrote:One other point to consider is that later 126mm frames (generally all 130mm) have a flattened chainstay inner edge to give chain clearance for top gear. It sounds as though yours doesn't.
It depends on how much you want to fiddle with everything for the sake of an extra gear. Older frames can be modified so far and no further...


Exactly, that's what I've said before. I don't see the reason to choose parts on the basis of how much one can modify them?
If a spare groupset was available, it doesn't mean that it necessarily belongs to a given frame.
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...