Giant Conduct Braking - Can we now have a triple and hydraulic discs?

[ogg]

Why not get a bar end shifter for the front derailleur?

[dragonrider]

TRP HY/RD are excellent brakes. It's the setup that confuses most people as it seems wrong for cable brakes so in general the cables are overtightened

Good that you are pleased with your TRP HY/RD brakes. How long have you been using them? There are quite a few who are not happy including me after extensive use. And I am not easily confused by mechanical work (retired Chartered Engineer), and I followed the set up instructions to the letter. It wasn’t just the set-up that was a problem. There were incredibly rapidly wearing pads in poor weather conditions, and that highlighted the failure to self adjust, despite repeating the set-up again and again. After yet more problems after 2 years and a couple of nasty incidents I decided to bin them. After taking them off Brucey kindly asked for them and did a careful analysis, finding there were microscopic metal filings in the fluid. Others apparently have had similar problems. So excuse my frustration after again being told it is all down to set-up problems. No it isn’t, some of us had a bad time with TRP HY/RDs.

[dragonrider]

Cable discs are for people who mastered the challenges cantilever brakes
and seek new realms of frustration and marginal braking.

Shimano XT hydros are very nice, very boring and lack the entertainment
value of HYRD, parabox and hydro rod brakes with carbon westwood rims.

But the point is ... you can't get triple shifters combined with hydro brakes.

I am exactly one of those people who uses a triple and has to use cable operated disc brakes.

Not with drop bars, it seems. About 20 yrs ago, I got so fed up with neck ache, I ditched my drops & went with straight bars. I was amazed how much better the handling of my then Claud Butler was! It's not about handlebar height or reach but hand position being more natural with straights. Other riders said that you loose alternative hand positions (none of them that comfortable, IMO). If people really feel the need for another way of holding their straight bars, they can fit bar ends. The other advantage of straight bars is safety - the brake levers are instantly accessible & gear changing is easier.

I decided to revisit drops bars again last spring so now have a Giant Defy (double chainset, hydraulic discs) for fast summer/fair weather commuting & the occasional club ride, etc. It did take me a week to acclimatise to integrated brake/gear levers but it's not as comfortable as my Ridgeback Flight 3 (triple with hydraulic discs & narrow bars). I can also convert the Defy to straight bars (at a price) if I get fed up with drops. The choice of light fast bikes without drops was limited to heavier hybrids.

I can understand the use of drops for racing where a low flat-backed aero stance is going to be an advantage but for CX, Audax, touring & general use, I just don't get their prevalence - especially when you observe how rarely non-racers actually hold the drops rather than the hoods etc.

Flat bars make my wrists ache after a couple of hours, good for shopping and the odd bit of MTB but otherwise I have to use drops for a decent ride. So always remember we are all different (fortunately), and it is horses (or bars) for courses!

[freeflow]

How long have you been using them?

I've had my TRP HY/RD since January 2015. I'd admit I did encounter a bit of disappointment in the first 6 months or so but I eventually learned how to get them set up correctly and to adapt to the different behavior of the brake levers.

I change to Disco Brakes Kevlar pads after the first red ones wore out (and I'd agree they wore quickly).

In 2016 I changed my damaged (mainly cosmetic) 6603 STI for 5700 and that improved lever feel.

I've found setting up the brakes to be almost counter intuitive. Unlike normal cable brakes you don't want any resisual tension in the cable. The actuation arm must be as free as possible to return to its base position. The best feel for this I've found is to pull the cable tight using only finger pressure before nipping it up and releasing the actuation arm. I then forcibly operate the brakes quite a few times to get the cable ends seated, relock the actuator arm release the cable and again pull finger tight before nipping up. At this point if there is any resistance at all as you unscrew the bolt locking the actuator arm then the cable is too tight.

I use Jagwire compressionless outers and the rear brake has a single piece of outer from the bars to the brake.

I'd admit that the levers do travel quite a way before the brakes bite but from thereon in there's plenty of stopping power and modulation. This is very different from my previous dual pivot brakes where the bite was almost immediate. Adapting to this difference was the biggest paradigm shift I had to make.

I can happily stop me and my bike in full Audax trim (120 kg) using only my rear brake on reasonably steep downhills (that's planned slowing for a junction not an emergency stop).

If anyone asked me I'd heartily recommend the brakes with the caveats about setup I've explained above.

[Brucey]

when I looked, there was swarf mixed the hydraulic fluid in the back of Dragonrider's calipers. I can't say for sure that it wasn't there all along but IMHO the most likely reason for its presence was that the LBS who worked on the brakes didn't know what they were doing, and

a) started to fool around with the pushrod setting (which you should never do) and
b) did so without first releasing the grub screw that locks the pushrod setting.

The latter would have made lots of swarf appear, and the former would result in a brake that couldn't any longer be set in accordance with the factory procedure.

HyRds work best with NSSLR (almost all post 2008 launch) STIs/levers, but can be made to work with older levers that have a shorter cable pull. The lever usually comes back a very long way though. BTW there are at least two versions of the HyRd; before a certain date the reservoir is smaller.

cheers

[dragonrider]

Well freeflow, after reading that description of what it takes you to set-up the TRP HYRDs I rest my case.

[freeflow]

Well freeflow, after reading that description of what it takes you to set-up the TRP HYRDs I rest my case.

TBH the process is very similar to how I'd set up dual pivot rim brakes, the only difference being setting the cable tension. The TRP HY/RD performed better with respect to pads as when I had rim brakes it took several changes of pads before I found ones I was happy with.

[busb]

But the point is ... you can't get triple shifters combined with hydro brakes.

I am exactly one of those people who uses a triple and has to use cable operated disc brakes.

Not with drop bars, it seems. About 20 yrs ago, I got so fed up with neck ache, I ditched my drops & went with straight bars. I was amazed how much better the handling of my then Claud Butler was! It's not about handlebar height or reach but hand position being more natural with straights. Other riders said that you loose alternative hand positions (none of them that comfortable, IMO). If people really feel the need for another way of holding their straight bars, they can fit bar ends. The other advantage of straight bars is safety - the brake levers are instantly accessible & gear changing is easier.

I decided to revisit drops bars again last spring so now have a Giant Defy (double chainset, hydraulic discs) for fast summer/fair weather commuting & the occasional club ride, etc. It did take me a week to acclimatise to integrated brake/gear levers but it's not as comfortable as my Ridgeback Flight 3 (triple with hydraulic discs & narrow bars). I can also convert the Defy to straight bars (at a price) if I get fed up with drops. The choice of light fast bikes without drops was limited to heavier hybrids.

I can understand the use of drops for racing where a low flat-backed aero stance is going to be an advantage but for CX, Audax, touring & general use, I just don't get their prevalence - especially when you observe how rarely non-racers actually hold the drops rather than the hoods etc.

Flat bars make my wrists ache after a couple of hours, good for shopping and the odd bit of MTB but otherwise I have to use drops for a decent ride. So always remember we are all different (fortunately), and it is horses (or bars) for courses!

If you've tried flat bars & don't get on with them - you ride with what works: drops in your case. My point is that many dismiss flat bars out of hand without trying them.

[Cugel]

I just noticed this thread.

I use a triple chainset but also have STI hydraulic brakes. The simple solution is to also install a friction bar-end shifter to change the front derailleur, after disconnecting the LH STI cable and connecting it to the bar-end lever.

Is this a bit of a queer arrangement? Perhaps; but a bar-end shifter for the front mech is used far less than the rear and so reaching very occasionally to tug it is no problem. Moreover, it's a great deal easer to trim the front mech with a bar-end lever than it is with a triple STI. The changes may also be less clangy than they tend to be with the LH STI, as one gets adept at tugging the bar-end just-so.