Lugged steel, sloping top tube, cantilevers.

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breakwellmz
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Lugged steel, sloping top tube, cantilevers.

Postby breakwellmz » 6 Nov 2017, 8:02am

To anyone looking for the above in a new bike i saw one of these the other day-
http://www.adventureoutdoor.co/mens/double-shot

Brucey
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Re: Lugged steel, sloping top tube, cantilevers.

Postby Brucey » 6 Nov 2017, 8:22am

the 'Flat White' touring model is built around a similar frame, is better equipped and is slightly cheaper. Not seen it in the flesh, but even with 2x7 gearing it looks like pretty good value.

cheers
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colin54
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Re: Lugged steel, sloping top tube, cantilevers.

Postby colin54 » 6 Nov 2017, 8:38am



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531colin
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Re: Lugged steel, sloping top tube, cantilevers.

Postby 531colin » 6 Nov 2017, 1:04pm

Why would you have a lugged frame and a hideous (bone-jarring?) unicrown fork.
Anybody seen a geo. table? ....I suspect the lugs are actually made at fairly standard angles for a horizontal top tube.....and have been "laid back" to get a bit of a slope.
So the frame angles might be sensibly slack, or they could be a compromise too far....depending on fork offset.

Brucey
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Re: Lugged steel, sloping top tube, cantilevers.

Postby Brucey » 6 Nov 2017, 5:31pm

frame angles appear to be ~73 to 73.5 seat, 70 to 70.5 head, by using MB ruler on the available photos.

cheers
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colin54
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Re: Lugged steel, sloping top tube, cantilevers.

Postby colin54 » 6 Nov 2017, 10:03pm

On the 54cm size frame in the first review the head angle is listed as 71 degrees,seat angle 73deg' and seat tube 52cm,there are other

dimensions listed as well in the specification but only for the 54cm frame, fork offset 5.25 and trail 6.5 (no units stated ) cm?

pwa
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Re: Lugged steel, sloping top tube, cantilevers.

Postby pwa » 7 Nov 2017, 8:34am

On a purely aesthetic front I like that frame. The lugs are so much neater than welds.

531 Colin suspects that the unicrown fork might be too rigid. I've no way of knowing without trying it, but one of the comfiest bikes I've had was a steel framed bike with Columbus EL Oversize tubes and a unicrown fork with straight blades. The tyres were 23mm, so the smooth ride had to come from the frame and forks. I know the bike we have here is a cheaper thing with thicker tube walls, of course, but I don't see why unicrown in itself should produce a harsh ride. I like to smooth looks of unicrown, but that is personal aesthetic taste.

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breakwellmz
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Re: Lugged steel, sloping top tube, cantilevers.

Postby breakwellmz » 7 Nov 2017, 8:37am

531colin wrote:Why would you have a lugged frame and a hideous (bone-jarring?) unicrown fork.
Anybody seen a geo. table? ....I suspect the lugs are actually made at fairly standard angles for a horizontal top tube.....and have been "laid back" to get a bit of a slope.
So the frame angles might be sensibly slack, or they could be a compromise too far....depending on fork offset.


Clever! Obvious when you know! That`s why the BB is not lugged then, the chainstays would not be horizontal if it were.

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barrym
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Re: Lugged steel, sloping top tube, cantilevers.

Postby barrym » 7 Nov 2017, 8:48am

Temple bikes in Bristol are like that too. Wondered why
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amediasatex
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Re: Lugged steel, sloping top tube, cantilevers.

Postby amediasatex » 7 Nov 2017, 9:19am

All the lugged Temple frames I've see have had horizontal TT's (apart from the Mixtes obviously), and I've seen a mix of welded and lugged BBs from them too, so think it's model dependant with them. Likewise with the forks, some of their models use unicrown, some not.

I imagine the spec choice in that regard often comes down purely to one thing... £

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531colin
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Re: Lugged steel, sloping top tube, cantilevers.

Postby 531colin » 7 Nov 2017, 12:19pm

breakwellmz wrote:
531colin wrote:Why would you have a lugged frame and a hideous (bone-jarring?) unicrown fork.
Anybody seen a geo. table? ....I suspect the lugs are actually made at fairly standard angles for a horizontal top tube.....and have been "laid back" to get a bit of a slope.
So the frame angles might be sensibly slack, or they could be a compromise too far....depending on fork offset.


Clever! Obvious when you know! That`s why the BB is not lugged then, the chainstays would not be horizontal if it were.


Doesn't sit well with a 73 deg seat though.
71 deg head and 54mm offset is good for me on a tourer.
The forks "look" bumpy to me because of the width of the blade front to back....its a long way down before they start to taper.

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Gattonero
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Re: Lugged steel, sloping top tube, cantilevers.

Postby Gattonero » 8 Nov 2017, 2:09pm

pwa wrote:On a purely aesthetic front I like that frame. The lugs are so much neater than welds.....


531colin wrote:Why would you have a lugged frame and a hideous (bone-jarring?) unicrown fork.....


Brucey wrote:the 'Flat White' touring model is built around a similar frame, is better equipped and is slightly cheaper. Not seen it in the flesh, but even with 2x7 gearing it looks like pretty good value.

cheers


For the low RRP I don't think one should put aesthetics as paramount, rather thinking of a solid ensemble.
A Unicrown fork is cheaper to manufacture in today's day, put that money in better wheels (for example).
Plus I'd advise for a bit of careful thinking regarding cheap lugged frames. You don't want to end up paying £600 for a complete single-speed bike (with many cheap unbranded components) that shows this inside the BB shell :roll:
Image

Image


Now, this is somewhat an unfair comparison, as it's an "expensive" frame from a top builder. You can see how the brass should flow all the way inside the lugs (let alone the mitering of the tubing)
Image

Image
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since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...

Bmblbzzz
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Re: Lugged steel, sloping top tube, cantilevers.

Postby Bmblbzzz » 8 Nov 2017, 2:28pm

I can't help feel that "modern lugged frame" is an oxymoron. A modern frame will be welded not lugged. There are still some people making good, traditional lugged frames, but they tend to be expensive, for a reason.

Brucey
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Re: Lugged steel, sloping top tube, cantilevers.

Postby Brucey » 8 Nov 2017, 4:33pm

re the BB shell brazing; the comparison is flawed in that

a) one BB shell is pressed and the other is investment cast; something would have gone horribly wrong if there was a fillet of braze metal filling the available space in the former shell.... :wink: and

b) the bike in question has a TIG welded BB assy anyway.

The latter point shows that the lugged build is probably just for looks. Doesn't sit right with a unicrown fork etc though.

BTW the fork may or may not be stiff and horrible; it all depends on the wall thickness of the tubing at various points. Having said that, one that looks like that and has a disc mount on it is odds-on likely to be stiffer than I'd like....

cheers
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