Shimano cassette lock rings with more threads?

[Cugel]

I have a number of wheelsets all with Shimano freehub bodies and cassettes. There seems to be a significant difference in how much male cassette lock ring thread can be engaged with the matching female thread of the freehub, across these various wheels.

Today I received a set of Hunt wheels with an 11-speed hub into which I can't get the lock ring of an Ultegra 11-speed cassette to engage at all. It briefly engages about half a turn of thread then pops out again, as the lock ring is as close to the freehub body end as it can get.

Does anyone know where I can obtain a Shimano-threaded cassette lock ring that has more threads - a deeper-threaded section that will insert farther into the freehub body before it's tight? All of the Shimano lock rings I have, on 9, 10 and 11-speed cassettes & freehubs seem to have only the minimum of thread engaged before they go tight......

Do any of the aftermarket bling alloy cassette lock rings have more insertable thread? One would hope so, given that they're alloy.

Cugel

[gloomyandy]

Silly question, but are you sure that is an 11 speed hub? What you describes sounds a lot like what happens with an 11 speed cassette on a 10 speed hub...

[Brucey]

Token make aluminium lockrings that might be a bit longer than most. Velosolo sell them. Do double-check that is is an 11s hub and that the final sprocket isn't fitted wrongly though; this can cause a lack of engagement.

Cassettes with plastic spacers in them often compress permanently by a small amount the first time they are installed. If it is a new cassette it might be worth fitting it very tightly onto another wheelset, leaving it overnight, and trying again. Even so it won't increase the engagement by more than about half a thread which makes it pretty marginal IMHO.

TBH considering that shimano don't publish specifications and yet other folk make 'compatible parts' it is surprising that there are not more problems of this sort.

cheers

[Valbrona]

I am sure you have thought of this, but did your 11 cassette come with a spacer (to go between biggest sprocket and spokes) that your Hunt wheels do not need?

[Cugel]

The hub is an 11-speed hub, with a width of 36.75mm as measured by my trusty vernier. This is identical to another 11-speed hub I have, on which the cassette in question will fit with the lock ring engaging at least two of it's threads. (Still not enough really but it does hold) .....

So, it is something of a mystery why the lock ring won't engage to the Hunt wheel's freehub. I can only assume that the female threads on the Hunt freehub don't come out as far as those on the other hub into which the lock ring will screw.

No, I haven't accidentally put the 8/9/10 cassette 1mm spacer behind the 11-speed cassette. It's safely in the spares box with the other 1528 spares.

I have squished the cassette sprockets and spacers quite firmly to ensure that they're fully on the freehub. The smallest sprocket is engaging the splines of the Hunt freehub (just) in an identical fashion to how it engages the splines on the other 11-speed hub into which the lock ring will screw.

****
There's no other solution that I can see other than obtaining a lock ring with more/deeper threads. Does anyone have a (12 sprocket) Token or similar alloy bling lock ring lying about on which they could measure the depth of the threaded protrusion?

Cugel

[Mr Evil]

I happen to have a Token lockring lying around. It's 5mm deep, compared to 4mm for a Shimano lockring.

[amediasatex]

Today I received a set of Hunt wheels with an 11-speed hub into which I can't get the lock ring of an Ultegra 11-speed cassette to engage at all

IF everything is in spec, then presumably you wont have been the first person to have this issue....have you asked Hunt about it?

[Valbrona]

One would guess that it is a generic hub, like DT for instance. Find out what brand and getting a 'proper spec' lockring might be possible.

[mattsccm]

When new spacers and sprockets are not always perfectly flat. Once I am sure that they are fitted correctly a tap with a hitting stick often tightens them enough for the lock ring to bite.

[Postboxer]

Assuming they're new wheels, you could return them as not fit for purpose. Unless there is a problem with the cassette, have you measured it against another, as you say it only just fits on your other hub?

[Cugel]

I happen to have a Token lockring lying around. It's 5mm deep, compared to 4mm for a Shimano lockring.

This is good to know as I just ordered one.

I have found another alloy lock ring (from Superstar) which is half a millimetre longer than the Shimano lock ring and it does stay screwed in to the Hunt freehub, although I daren't tighten it to the 40 Newtons recommended torque (it's more like 20N). It seems to hold with just over one full turn of thread engagement! Hopefully the Token will go in another whole thread....

I did a 55 miler on these new wheels today and the cassette has worked just as it did on the previously used wheels, with no adjustments required to the gear throw or indexing.

[Cugel]

Today I received a set of Hunt wheels with an 11-speed hub into which I can't get the lock ring of an Ultegra 11-speed cassette to engage at all

IF everything is in spec, then presumably you wont have been the first person to have this issue....have you asked Hunt about it?

I have asked Hunt about it, and they responded within one hour of the email, telling me the problem is not unknown but vanishingly rare (4 or 5 cases in a year). They've sent me, free of charge, a spare freehub to try just in case there is something not quite perfect in the machining of the current hub. Good service, that.

They mention that a Chris King lock ring is significantly longer .... but also about the price of a whole Ultegra cassette.

By the way, the wheels (Hunt 4-seasons) with Schwalbe G 30mm tubeless tyres mounted do roll and stick exceedingly well on the filthy shattered lanes of the cold dark north. (55 miles of it during a convoluted back road ride from Lancaster to Arnside and back, today).

[Cugel]

Assuming they're new wheels, you could return them as not fit for purpose. Unless there is a problem with the cassette, have you measured it against another, as you say it only just fits on your other hub?

The cassette in question will go on to other 11-speed hubs I have (body length 36.75mm, as is the Hunt's, all measured by me with me vernier) with the Ultegra lock ring grabbing at least 1.5 turns of thread, which does not come undone and can be done up to the recommended 40 Newtons torque. 1.5 turns of thread doesn't seem enough, though, does it? But of all the Shimano cassettes and freehubs I have, of all "speeds 9-11, not one has a lock ring that grabs more than 2 of the available threads.

Hunt does have a no-questions return policy but the wheels are very good and if I can get a deeper lock ring, so I can feel more confident about the cassette staying put, I'll be happy. I feel that it's a Shimano issue at bottom - lock rings could and should be deeper, to allow them to grab more threads. If one happened to be a bit too deep it could easily be packed with a washer to ensure it was retaining the cassette sprockets properly.

[Brucey]

.... but the wheels are very good....

I would say there is ample evidence that this is not the case....?

cheers

[Cugel]

.... but the wheels are very good....

I would say there is ample evidence that this is not the case....?

cheers

What evidence? Explicit list of meaningful un-goods plis. I'll give you a start:

* The freehub doesn't easily engage my particular Shimano 11-speed Ultegra cassette lock ring on the freehub of my particular set of wheels.

Over to you.