Touring Gear Ratios for Wimps!

[Tigerbiten]

In fairness there are those who claim that 'this doesn't really matter in this day and age'. All you need, they say, is to be able to contact someone who does have the correct parts (even if they are in another part of the globe entirely) and they can have the parts shipped to you in a day or two.

cheers

Been there and done that a couple of times with my hydraulic brakes.
As the are Tektro Auriga Twin's, I only know I can get them from ICE as they are OEM.
But I still prefer them to the cable BB7's.
The longest I've been stuck was a week in Budapest due to slightly messed up shipping.
The again ICE are very good and I know if I need anything from a single odd sized bolt upto and including a mainframe, ICE will get it to me within that time frame once I contact them with what I need and card/shipping details.
Knowing something like this does take a lot of stress off you when things go pear shaped while on tour.

[bretonbikes]

In fairness there are those who claim that 'this doesn't really matter in this day and age'. All you need, they say, is to be able to contact someone who does have the correct parts (even if they are in another part of the globe entirely) and they can have the parts shipped to you in a day or two.

cheers

Been there and done that a couple of times with my hydraulic brakes.
As the are Tektro Auriga Twin's, I only know I can get them from ICE as they are OEM.
But I still prefer them to the cable BB7's.
The longest I've been stuck was a week in Budapest due to slightly messed up shipping.
The again ICE are very good and I know if I need anything from a single odd sized bolt upto and including a mainframe, ICE will get it to me within that time frame once I contact them with what I need and card/shipping details.
Knowing something like this does take a lot of stress off you when things go pear shaped while on tour.

Great info thanks - personally I try to use stuff that can be replaced by the average supermarket in extremis - after-all running a crappy tyre for a couple of days is preferable to sitting at the side of the road, or if a dropout breaks being able to have a garage braze it up that day, or just buying a wheel off-the-shelf that is round and will take cogs and so-on. If your touring schedule means that having to explore one place for a few days whilst parts get to you is actually part of the adventure then that's another matter.

[Sweep]

I bow to your massively superior knowledge CJ but are you sure that you aren't being overly pessimistic on what I think of as 26 inch tyres? After all, how much choice of tyres do you need?

[bretonbikes]

I bow to your massively superior knowledge CJ but are you sure that you aren't being overly pessimistic on what I think of as 26 inch tyres? After all, how much choice of tyres do you need?

26" is a world standard (unlike 700c) and you'll be able to get touring capable tyres for it in 20 years time. Happy to bet £1000 on it (providing I'm still around to pay up/collect;-)

[bretonbikes]

Personally I'd think hard about going to 26" wheels as it makes lower gearing easier. With modern slick tyres they fly along...

Think very hard and then think again.


Nice mountain-bikes don't come with that size of wheel anymore. And expedition touring bikes, the like of Surly's Long-Haul Trucker, don't sell in large enough numbers, not even when you lump in all the other niche market road-going bikes that have been designed around 559 wheels, to sustain the mass manufacture and marketing of top-quality tyres. The diversity of available models is already reduced. Gone are the 26x1 and 1.3 sizes. Nowadays the slimmest you're likely to find is 1.5in.

30 seconds on Google

https://www.evanscycles.com/bontrager-2 ... e-EV182335

https://www.evanscycles.com/nutrak-26-x ... e-EV173153

https://www.sigmasport.co.uk/item/Speci ... -x-125/LAK

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Continental-Ul ... B000O1LLIK

#justsaying

[CJ]

but having said that, you can still buy 27x 1-1/4" tyres fairly easily...

...that roll like a slug.

And if you actually wanted one of the narrower so-called 27x1 or 11/8, or wider 13/8 variants, you can forget it.

[CJ]

Personally I'd think hard about going to 26" wheels as it makes lower gearing easier. With modern slick tyres they fly along...

Think very hard and then think again.


Nice mountain-bikes don't come with that size of wheel anymore. And expedition touring bikes, the like of Surly's Long-Haul Trucker, don't sell in large enough numbers, not even when you lump in all the other niche market road-going bikes that have been designed around 559 wheels, to sustain the mass manufacture and marketing of top-quality tyres. The diversity of available models is already reduced. Gone are the 26x1 and 1.3 sizes. Nowadays the slimmest you're likely to find is 1.5in.

30 seconds on Google

https://www.evanscycles.com/bontrager-2 ... e-EV182335

https://www.evanscycles.com/nutrak-26-x ... e-EV173153

https://www.sigmasport.co.uk/item/Speci ... -x-125/LAK

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Continental-Ul ... B000O1LLIK

#justsaying

Useful links for those with a nice old MTB tourer - although most are as slick as the head of our old art-teacher (AKA Chrome-Dome!). And if I had such a bike I'd be right on there right now, buying up enough to see it out, because you won't find them much longer. Note that the available stock on at least one of those links is just "one tyre short of a bicycle"!

[bretonbikes]

Think very hard and then think again.


Nice mountain-bikes don't come with that size of wheel anymore. And expedition touring bikes, the like of Surly's Long-Haul Trucker, don't sell in large enough numbers, not even when you lump in all the other niche market road-going bikes that have been designed around 559 wheels, to sustain the mass manufacture and marketing of top-quality tyres. The diversity of available models is already reduced. Gone are the 26x1 and 1.3 sizes. Nowadays the slimmest you're likely to find is 1.5in.

30 seconds on Google

https://www.evanscycles.com/bontrager-2 ... e-EV182335

https://www.evanscycles.com/nutrak-26-x ... e-EV173153

https://www.sigmasport.co.uk/item/Speci ... -x-125/LAK

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Continental-Ul ... B000O1LLIK

#justsaying

Useful links for those with a nice old MTB tourer - although most are as slick as the head of our old art-teacher (AKA Chrome-Dome!). And if I had such a bike I'd be right on there right now, buying up enough to see it out, because you won't find them much longer. Note that the available stock on at least one of those links is just "one tyre short of a bicycle"!

I just posted them to show that 30 seconds on google completely refuted your absolute statement that nothing under 1.5" was available. If I'd spent 5 minutes on it there would have been a list of 20 but life's too short. I disagree totally that 26" is dead - sure the market is evolving but that's not the same, and who would use a 1" slick on a tourer anyway? As for them being true 'slick' - yes I chose them deliberately as your original quote was about 'slicks'... If you'd said 'road pattern tread' I could have posted a few dozen more links;-) Besides - tread on a road tyre is a snare and illusion at the best of times, but then that's another can of worms.

[SA_SA_SA]

..... 559 wheels...... Nowadays the slimmest you're likely to find is 1.5in.

I thought 1.75in(47mm) on 559 wheels seemed OK for an expedition tourer (plus its what I use ) I had thought that was meant to be the comfort equivalent to the 37/40mm 'wide' tyres on a 700C(622mm) rim for a comfy tourer?

How much longer will quality* 1.75in(47 559) tyres be available do you reckon?

*Eg Schwalbe Marathon variants, Pluses(used by me on rear), Continental Contacts IIs (used by me on front).

[Brucey]

but having said that, you can still buy 27x 1-1/4" tyres fairly easily...

...that roll like a slug.

And if you actually wanted one of the narrower so-called 27x1 or 1-1/8, or wider 1-3/8 variants, you can forget it.

ahem; (two seconds on a web browser.... )

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tyres-27-630/

lists 13 different 630mm models (plus width choice in some models) including 1", 1-1/8", and 1-1/4" variants from Conti, Schwalbe, Michelin, Panaracer, Nutrak etc

The list includes some quite nice tyres.

cheers

[CJ]

I still wouldn't invest in a new frame that relied upon either of those sizes. Not when there's other ways of getting a plenty low enough gear.

I use chainrings of 20 or 22 with a 36 rear cog (standard 9-speed cassette). That's 15 or 17 inches. Tell me you use a gear lower than 16.5 inches and I'll allow that you do need those 26in wheels. But wait, I hear that 9-speed is on the way out and that 42 teeth is commonplace on the 10-speeds we're all supposed to want now. So I take that back. Now you have to tell me you use a gear lower than 14 inches!

Many people however, cannot balance well enough on steep hills to ride slow enough to have any use for such gears. I know, I'm married to one who stalling speed is about 3.5mph. Her old 26in wheel and new 700C touring bikes both have a bottom gear of 18 inches, that she uses but rarely and certainly has no use for anything lower.

[Tigerbiten]

I use chainrings of 20 or 22 with a 36 rear cog (standard 9-speed cassette). That's 15 or 17 inches. Tell me you use a gear lower than 16.5 inches and I'll allow that you do need those 26in wheels. But wait, I hear that 9-speed is on the way out and that 42 teeth is commonplace on the 10-speeds we're all supposed to want now. So I take that back. Now you have to tell me you use a gear lower than 14 inches!

My first gear is only 9.5" ........

But I do ride a recumbent trike and a 15" first gear is fairly common for that type of trike.

Yes you can get silly low gears with a 42 sprocket and a 700c wheel.
But if you do use it, then all the other gaps between the gears need to be bigger to compensate.
Also you'll soon get over the maximum limit for the amount of chain even a long cage rear derailleur can cope even with a double chainring.

[CJ]

I use chainrings of 20 or 22 with a 36 rear cog (standard 9-speed cassette). That's 15 or 17 inches. Tell me you use a gear lower than 16.5 inches and I'll allow that you do need those 26in wheels. But wait, I hear that 9-speed is on the way out and that 42 teeth is commonplace on the 10-speeds we're all supposed to want now. So I take that back. Now you have to tell me you use a gear lower than 14 inches!

My first gear is only 9.5" ........

But I do ride a recumbent trike and a 15" first gear is fairly common for that type of trike.

And fortunately there is no sign yet of the BMX fraternity raising from the dead one of the several other nominally 20in sizes and abandoning their favourite 406mm bead diameter (20 x some decimal number of inches) tyres!

Yes you can get silly low gears with a 42 sprocket and a 700c wheel.

High gears are silly. Low gears are survival.

But if you do use it, then all the other gaps between the gears need to be bigger to compensate.

Not really, it's 10 or 11-speed remember, so the gaps are no bigger than the equivalent 9 or 10-speed cassette that ends in 36.

Also you'll soon get over the maximum limit for the amount of chain even a long cage rear derailleur can cope even with a double chainring.

But it doesn't actually matter if the chain 'dangles' (like those of the 1930s flottantistes - look it up) in the small and small combinations one never actually needs.

[Tigerbiten]

I like calling low gears under 20" 'silly low gears' just to differentiate them from the more standard low gears.
It's just like how I call gears higher than 130" 'silly high gears'.
It's just my way of thinking as I have roughly 5 gears both above and below a standard bikes range due to having 24 unique gears with roughly 13.6% between each gear.

With the stepping between gears, I was thinking like with like.
Yes it easy to add one more sprocket to give a bigger range and keep the same stepping.
But it's impossible to keep the same stepping and increase the range with the same number of sprockets.

As for chain length.
I ride a recumbent where it fairly standard to push the limits of both front and back derailleurs.
My maximum is only a 51 tooth difference, 26 front and 25 back.
Also due to running a x2.5 chain length both small-small and big-big are acceptable gear combos.
So as for running a slack chain in small-small, been there and done that.
You need to be careful about the chain running back on itself before it goes slack enough if you use a wide range cassette.

[BigG]

Like Tigerbitten, I have tried to maximise the number of discreet gears on my bikes but have a maximum of 21 with a 3 x 8 triple. My engineering training originally led me to believe that that evenly spaced gears throughout the range was the ideal to aim for - and a 13.5% gap seemed close to ideal. However, experience slowly overrode this theoretical solution and I had to admit that much wider gaps were wholly acceptable at the lower end of the gear range - say below about 30" whereas even 13.5% seems quite big at 75" or above. For this reason (among others) I have settled for a half step and granny system which on my 3 x 8 gives a roughly 10% gap at the middle and top end using the half step and a 21% gap over the last 4 low gears. I have a theory as to why equal percentage spacing is not the right answer but won't bore you with it here.