Rigida/Ryde Sputnik; improved nipple articulation

[Brucey]

I was just building up a Sputnik onto a large IGH the other day and -not for the first time- I regarded the nasty angles the spokes were entering the nipples with a degree of opprobrium. I don't very often build with these rims because they are overkill for most jobs, but this wheel's hub only had 32 spokes and was due to see hard service over an extended period, so this was the obvious rim to use.

Those of you with elephantine memories may recall that some time ago I speculated that one might be able to improve the nipple articulation into these rims by manipulating the spoke holes using a mandrel of some kind.

Well, I was so disappointed with the end result in this wheel that I decided to try the manipulation, even though it meant I had to take the spokes out of the rim one at a time to do it. I thought about making a special tool, with two halves that screw together, but in the end I though I'd try something simpler first and would see how that went. I used a screwdriver with a shank that was a snug fit in the rim eyelets and simply gave the screwdriver a tweak sideways (actually about 45 degrees) until it pointed at the destination hole in the hub.

Well, it seems to work; even with DT 14G nipples (which usually articulate a bit less than Sapim ones) the nipples now appear to be very well aligned, as if the rim was correctly angle-drilled in the first place. I can't see that there is any real damage to the eyelets or the rim (no whitening of the anodising) either.

I'll post photos when I have the chance, and obviously I shall report any unusual/unintended events that crop up in final build or service.

If I do it again, I shall mark up the rim to indicate the direction of the required tweak at each hole, and tweak every hole in the rim before the build is started. I would imagine that with some practice, it would only take a few minutes to tweak the rim in this way.

cheers

[mercalia]

so not just me then who was unhappy with that aspect of the wheels/rims. In my case I think the tension in the spokes did it a bit but the result not as good as my Exal SP19s which seems a superior rim of siilar spec

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
My experience was that there was no spoke hole offset that was visible even measurable, just a tolerance of some variation which was larger than any offset, certainly not a pattern you could see or measure, very poor.
Which led me to the conclusion that no offset was meant at all.

Its definitely a very heavy duty rim which is not needed for road touring, more suited to roadless world tour?

Let down by poor offset spoke hole / rivet angling.

What else is available?
So the tweak is meant to limit bend / bending / manipulation after build of spoke near nipple / thread?

[2Phat4Rapha]

Ryde do/did a rim called Andra I think that has directionally drilled holes, as I believe do motorcycle wheels. However, when I tried to order them for some electric bike wheels I was told they've discontinued them.

Trying to confirm this I've emailed Ryde in the Netherlands SIX times without a reply. Read into that whatever you will.

[Bonefishblues]

Andras are still available AIUI - Koga use them on their World Traveller, for instance.

[Brucey]

Ryde Andra rims exist in several different forms and several different widths. Some variants have only ever been stocked by specialists. [The UK distributors have only ever stocked a few types, I think; they are more interested in the churn and don't stock the full range. They have also just raised their prices in a stupid, business-killing fashion which means that an LBS near me is expected to pay a trade price for Ryde rims which isn't far off the retail price that such rims command from other sources. Ryde don't deal with the public directly; no idea why you couldn't get them via e-mail, I've never tried myself. ]

Anyway you need to specify Andra 30 or Andra 40, size and rim drilling. The rims are normally available single or double eyelet, or eyeletless, or angle drilled, rim brake or disc brake versions. I would go to a Bakfiets supplier to get an angle-drilled Andra rim in the UK.

cheers

[Brucey]

a couple of photos that show the improved nipple articulation in a Sputnik rim. The eyelet with the mark next to it has been tweaked; its neighbours have not.

it is at first sight not a big difference; however a few degrees here can be important.

cheers

[Bonefishblues]

Images not visible to me?

[Brucey]

Images not visible to me?

I stuck the wrong ones in, and was probably busy editing the post when you were trying to look at it...

cheers

[Brucey]

this photo shows 'a tweaker's eye view ' of the modified alignment, with the tool in position.

before tweaking, the tool would only point at the centre of the hub

cheers

[Bonefishblues]

That's a much more informative view - makes sense now.

[2Phat4Rapha]

Ryde Andra rims exist in several different forms and several different widths. Some variants have only ever been stocked by specialists. [The UK distributors have only ever stocked a few types, I think; they are more interested in the churn and don't stock the full range. They have also just raised their prices in a stupid, business-killing fashion which means that an LBS near me is expected to pay a trade price for Ryde rims which isn't far off the retail price that such rims command from other sources. Ryde don't deal with the public directly; no idea why you couldn't get them via e-mail, I've never tried myself. ]
cheers

Yes, that's why I went to Ryde's website. They do have a contacts page after all. Shame they ignore it. I wanted a small but regular trade supply of rims for a project to rebuild some dreadful Chinese eBike wheels but I'm afraid I came up against their their Sales Prevention Team. Their horrendous price rises also include eye-watering hikes on Sapim too. Guess I'll chicken-out in favour of Madison/DT.

Mind you, I do have Sputniks in stock so might well give your mod a try. It's got to be an easier option than the needle file approach I've already tried!

[Brucey]

mind you if you are using 13G spokes then you will be using converter nipples in sputnik rims which raises a whole new can of worms...

cheers

[catsnapper]

We regularly use Ryde Andra rims from a German supplier: https://www.zweiradnetz.de/component/vi ... egory_id=0
They stock a wide range of Ryde rims.

As they're regularly used on e-bike wheels with 13g spokes, drilling them out for the correct nipples is not a problem. Drilling the nipple angle for very large hubs is not quite so easy...

Zweiradnetz.de supply the 13/14mm nipples, but as has been mentioned, using them can be problematic!


Catsnapper

[Gattonero]

I was just building up a Sputnik onto a large IGH the other day and -not for the first time- I regarded the nasty angles the spokes were entering the nipples with a degree of opprobrium. I don't very often build with these rims because they are overkill for most jobs, but this wheel's hub only had 32 spokes and was due to see hard service over an extended period, so this was the obvious rim to use.

Those of you with elephantine memories may recall that some time ago I speculated that one might be able to improve the nipple articulation into these rims by manipulating the spoke holes using a mandrel of some kind.

Well, I was so disappointed with the end result in this wheel that I decided to try the manipulation, even though it meant I had to take the spokes out of the rim one at a time to do it. I thought about making a special tool, with two halves that screw together, but in the end I though I'd try something simpler first and would see how that went. I used a screwdriver with a shank that was a snug fit in the rim eyelets and simply gave the screwdriver a tweak sideways (actually about 45 degrees) until it pointed at the destination hole in the hub.

Well, it seems to work; even with DT 14G nipples (which usually articulate a bit less than Sapim ones) the nipples now appear to be very well aligned, as if the rim was correctly angle-drilled in the first place. I can't see that there is any real damage to the eyelets or the rim (no whitening of the anodising) either.

I'll post photos when I have the chance, and obviously I shall report any unusual/unintended events that crop up in final build or service.

If I do it again, I shall mark up the rim to indicate the direction of the required tweak at each hole, and tweak every hole in the rim before the build is started. I would imagine that with some practice, it would only take a few minutes to tweak the rim in this way.

cheers

The problem I see with this, is that the nipple would land on the rim in the same way, because it head could still rest on a surface that may not allow to follow the different angle the extension of the nipple has. This can make the transition between head and extension of the nipple subject to crack.
If the rim has enough material in that area, one could try to countersink the inner part of the spoke hole in the rim. Brompton have done this, it's a bit crude to see in reality, but seems to work very well indeed.