Ti Audax frame recommendations...

[amediasatex]

I will

[gloomyandy]

I share your pain when it comes to short legs and steep seat tube angles! Looking at your spec it seems you must be a very similar shape to me, so I'll be interested what you finally come up with!

You've obviously spent a fair bit of time thinking about this bike so if you don't mind I'd love to know a little more about your thinking on brake choice. It seems from the various comments that your desire for 28mm tyres plus guards means that your choice of dp brakes is one that limits the available frames. For me having a bike with disc brakes has been a bit of a revelation not so much in terms of improving braking, but that so many of the niggles of other systems (frame clearance, mudguard fit, bendy brake calipers, straddle wires and all the rest) no longer exist. I think you mentioned that you do have discs on other bikes, so I'd be intrigued to hear your reasons (and I'm sure they are good ones) for not selecting them for this one.

[tod28]

However, my y Spa Ti Audax happily takes 28mm tyres - Gatorskins, Rubino Pro's, Pasela TG etc

28mm with guards? Mine would have nearly no clearance with that. Maybe they have tweaked the spec since I got mine. Nice frame though. Crisp and neat.

I am riding frame 000035 from 2012!

[Samuel D]

For what it’s worth, my steel Spa Audax (photo) doesn’t max out the brake slots with BR-R650 callipers and Exal XR2 rims.

It’s tricky to do this, because aside from frame manufacturing tolerances, there are variations in brake calliper reach (which varies further from side to side with the centring screw position), rim width (especially these days), rim diameter (the brake track on my Exal XR2 is farther from the hub than that of my recently acquired Mavic Open Elite), and brake pad thickness when new and as they wear and the slack is taken up by barrel adjusters in the cables.

You could still fit 28 mm tyres with mudguards on my Audax, but the clearance might not satisfy everyone. How do we know what’s acceptable to pwa? Depends on the mudguard design too. SKS Chromoplastics are square and that interferes with one arm of the brake calliper (seen as wagging of the front mudguard protrusion when you apply the brake).

The seat tube angle is my concern with most frames too. I have considered opening up a lot more options by buying a Nitto S84 seatpost, but it’s expensive and heavy (steel).

Curious what you end up with too!

[PH]

You could still fit 28 mm tyres with mudguards on my Audax, but the clearance might not satisfy everyone.

Plus 28mm tyres come in at a wide variety of sizes. When someone says 28mm it should refer to a measurement rather than anything written on the sidewall, otherwise I could say that I get 32mm tyres and guards under my 57mm brakes.

[gloomyandy]

Yes tyre sizing seems to be very hit and miss! They are also no easy to describe!

I have a set of Continental 25mm ones that have a measured width of over 27mm but they are fine in my (summer road bike) frame, but I have another set of 25mm tyres (Vittoria ones I think), that measure only 26mm wide (on the same rim), but which are taller and so have very little clearance under the brake caliper! Both will be listed as 25mm but will probably cause fit problems on different bikes!

[pwa]

However, my y Spa Ti Audax happily takes 28mm tyres - Gatorskins, Rubino Pro's, Pasela TG etc

28mm with guards? Mine would have nearly no clearance with that. Maybe they have tweaked the spec since I got mine. Nice frame though. Crisp and neat.

I am riding frame 000035 from 2012!

Mine is 311, and the brake block is in the centre of the slot, nowhere near the bottom. Ancient RX100 57mm calipers. A bit lower on the fork, but still not at the bottom. 25mm GP 4 Seasons have a decent gap to the guards, but I'd not put a bigger tyre in there. I'd already settled on 25mm after a period of using 28mm, so I'm not bothered.

[amediasatex]

You've obviously spent a fair bit of time thinking about this bike so if you don't mind I'd love to know a little more about your thinking on brake choice. It seems from the various comments that your desire for 28mm tyres plus guards means that your choice of dp brakes is one that limits the available frames. For me having a bike with disc brakes has been a bit of a revelation not so much in terms of improving braking, but that so many of the niggles of other systems (frame clearance, mudguard fit, bendy brake calipers, straddle wires and all the rest) no longer exist. I think you mentioned that you do have discs on other bikes, so I'd be intrigued to hear your reasons (and I'm sure they are good ones) for not selecting them for this one.

Well, I'm not anti disc brakes if that's what you were wondering
My MTbs have them, my commuter has them, even my tourer has them, but I don't find them necessary on my 'road' bikes. I don't find the performance of decent DPs lacking in any way and find them both extremely reliable and easy to fettle when needed. So not only do I not find them necessary there are a number of drawbacks that for me, mean they're not what I want right now on my audax bike. Said drawbacks being:

- tricker wheel swaps, not just between my own wheels, but emergency/on the road repairs etc.
- less chance of me dropping into an LBS/halfords and being able to grab pads/spares if necessary
- less easily fettled on the road
- stiffer forks, I know I could go for discs and a bigger tyre, but I'm happy at 25/28/32mm for audax and road riding so don't want to have to lug around extra eight just to reclaim the comfort I can get already.
- extra weight, mostly not an issue, but there will always be some extra for discs so why cart it around if I don't need to?

Rim brakes are simple, reliable, fixable, light weight, and perform adequately for me, there is always some added complexity involved in running discs, either more attention required for good cable setup/routing, or hydro complexities, they're always going to be heavier, and can be harder to fix roadside, even if they are IME as reliable as rim brakes.

Basically, it's not one thing, it's a bunch of small things that mean I'd rather not. If ever I have a really crappy weather ride ahead of me, or a multi-day trip with more luggage and I'd probably take my tourer anyway.
So for reasonably pacy rides, of under 400k and not in hurricane conditions I don't need or want them.

Yes tyre sizing seems to be very hit and miss! They are also no easy to describe!

For clarity, when I've quoted a tyre size I've generally measure it. ie: when I said my Mercian can take 32mm + guards that's a tyre I've actually measure @32mm. It's even had a 'sidewall 38mm' under them but that was a bit close and measured 36mm

And yes good point the guards do make a difference, I find SKS can reduce available clearances a bit in some cases due to the square profile, and the brackets you use can also play a part. FWIW I normally use either GB stainless guards or VO Alu, very round in profile and fit snugly right up under the brake against the bridge so I possibly manage to eek a mm or two extra out fo them compared to some others.

[fastpedaller]

Op - are you dismissing V brakes? as they would give more clearance than DP's. ETA- I've just noticed in your opening post that you haven't dismissed canti's

[amediasatex]

Not dismissed V/Canti, just options appear even more limited in that regard

[fastpedaller]

Not dismissed V/Canti, just options appear even more limited in that regard

But could Burls (for instance) make to order?

[amediasatex]

Of course, and that is an option, and while the Burls prices are very good value it's still a good several hundred quid over the Spa, that's what I'm trying to decide on now, whether it's something I can/want to afford...

[fastpedaller]

Of course, and that is an option, and while the Burls prices are very good value it's still a good several hundred quid over the Spa, that's what I'm trying to decide on now, whether RS something I can/want to afford...

Wow, yes they are aren't they! I have to say my spa tourer in steel is just about perfect IMHO.

[LuckyLuke]

Hi, I used to have a 60cm VN Yukon. Brought the frame & forks new in 2010 or 2011 via cycle to work scheme. Brought it from Fat Birds Don't Fly, who IIRC have a few Ti frames for sale.
I recall they've revised the frame since then. Mine had an external headset, 1 1/8" size.
I ran the Shimano Long drop callipers, BR 650s. Great brakes!
Originally it came with a carbon fork, ?Deda Black Rain model. I swapped it for a Thorn 531 steel one. I think tyres were limited to 700 X 25s with SKS guards with the carbon forks (DT Swiss 1.1 rims). With the roomier Thorn forks I ran Gilles Berthould steel guards & 700 x 28s. (Grand Bois tyres & Panaracer Paselas.)
For a while the Yukon had the converted status of 'best bike' due to the cost / value. But I actually didn't like the ride of the frame much, and passed it on after it dawned on me that I was hardly riding it.
I'm a low power, slow-twitch lightweight, 65kg, and a spinner. I found the Yukon a bit too stiff & unyielding. (Contrary to popular opinion that Ti frames are comfy...)
I've since gravitated to thin walled skinny tubed steel frames. YMMV but worth arranging a good long test ride?
Best wishes,
Luke

[amediasatex]

Well, I've placed an order for the Spa...hopefully it'll do the trick once it arrives!

It was the seat angle that swayed it in the end, everything else was too steep.
Custom from Burls would have been lovely, but £1200+ vs £750 is too hard to ignore, that's a lot of spare cash for parts/wheels...