New commuter - Disc Trucker

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
User avatar
Heltor Chasca
Posts: 3016
Joined: 30 Aug 2014, 8:18pm
Location: Near Bath & The Mendips in Somerset

Re: New commuter - Disc Trucker

Postby Heltor Chasca » 4 Jan 2018, 10:34am

Another fan of a Surly DTs here. A good bike that many appreciate. So adaptable for all sorts. Mine has been a conservative tourer, Audax bike and currently a gnarly, knobbly, uncategorised fun bike.

reohn2
Posts: 35909
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: New commuter - Disc Trucker

Postby reohn2 » 4 Jan 2018, 11:06am

old_windbag wrote:
scottg wrote:Surly is part of Quality Bicycle Parts, the biggest supplier to bike shops in the States.
All City, Foundry, Whiskey Parts, Salsa, Problem Solvers and others are all QBP brands.


Some nice kit amongst those names. On the frameset front there are some interesting options from this uk company:-

http://www.lightbluecycles.co.uk/Sport/frames

Most aren't super expensive and the darwin( clearance for 38c with guards ) looks an interesting disc frameset as an all round bike. Some of the others look top dollar with the lined lugs and silver headset cups.

The seattube angle @ 73.5 degrees across the sizes on the Darwin are as mad as a box of frogs,bonkers! Others in their range don't fare much better with no less than 73degs even in the largest sizes :?
EDIT,just to add that the track frame S.A. actually gets steeper in the two largest sizes :shock: :?
Last edited by reohn2 on 4 Jan 2018, 11:36am, edited 1 time in total.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

old_windbag
Posts: 1869
Joined: 19 Feb 2015, 3:55pm

Re: New commuter - Disc Trucker

Postby old_windbag » 4 Jan 2018, 11:34am

reohn2 wrote:The seattube angle @ 73.5 degrees across the sizes on the Darwin are as mad as a box of frogs,bonkers!


Another british company shot down in flames and sent into receivership :wink: . I suppose if you get into real fine tuning of position that may be relevant but my main standouts when looking for a frame are effective top tube, chainstay length, wheelbase( gives an idea of front centre and suitability as a tourer etc ). After that there are a couple of others but by that time I will have put it into CAD to experiment, it's only 15mins or less.

There are many other variables all interacting with each other that the CAD is worth doing before committing to anything.

User avatar
andrew_s
Posts: 4898
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 9:29pm
Location: Gloucestershire

Re: New commuter - Disc Trucker

Postby andrew_s » 4 Jan 2018, 11:39am

Samuel D wrote:Andrew_s: is that an eTrex you have somehow mounted out front?

It's on a Minoura SG400 (or maybe the previous version of the same thing). Etrex one side, bell the other.

PeterBL wrote:(and Hypers, I run those outside of the winter).

The photo is early November. The Hypers came off later, and it got Conti Top Contact Winter 37 mm (actually 30-32) put on. It also had Marathon Winter studded on for a couple of days, but I find them too draggy to leave on just in case.

A tourer is probably the nearest thing available to a "do everything" bike, especially now disc brakes allow tyre size flexibility.

PeterBL
Posts: 166
Joined: 26 Oct 2010, 1:04pm

Re: New commuter - Disc Trucker

Postby PeterBL » 4 Jan 2018, 11:48am

old_windbag wrote:
reohn2 wrote:The seattube angle @ 73.5 degrees across the sizes on the Darwin are as mad as a box of frogs,bonkers!


Another british company shot down in flames and sent into receivership :wink: . I suppose if you get into real fine tuning of position that may be relevant but my main standouts when looking for a frame are effective top tube, chainstay length, wheelbase( gives an idea of front centre and suitability as a tourer etc ). After that there are a couple of others but by that time I will have put it into CAD to experiment, it's only 15mins or less.

There are many other variables all interacting with each other that the CAD is worth doing before committing to anything.

I looked at the frames from Light Blue Cycles as well, but too had concerns about geometry. I can manage a 73.5 degree seattube with a set back seat post, but it was difficult to compare stack and reach with the DT and others since it isn't listed for the Darwin.

In my book effective top tube isn't the most useful measurement (but better than actual top tube), since it doesn't take into account the effect the seat tube angle has on the needed horizontal top tube length.

PeterBL
Posts: 166
Joined: 26 Oct 2010, 1:04pm

Re: New commuter - Disc Trucker

Postby PeterBL » 4 Jan 2018, 11:52am

andrew_s wrote:
PeterBL wrote:(and Hypers, I run those outside of the winter).

The photo is early November. The Hypers came off later, and it got Conti Top Contact Winter 37 mm (actually 30-32) put on. It also had Marathon Winter studded on for a couple of days, but I find them too draggy to leave on just in case.

A tourer is probably the nearest thing available to a "do everything" bike, especially now disc brakes allow tyre size flexibility.

Yes, very flexible with disc brakes.

I am on Michelin Stargrip for the winter. They run true to their width, but are very tall, especially on their shoulders due to their profile. I haven't tried them in real snow yet, but agree the studded tyres are to much of a drag for many days without snow.

reohn2
Posts: 35909
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: New commuter - Disc Trucker

Postby reohn2 » 4 Jan 2018, 11:52am

old_windbag wrote:
reohn2 wrote:The seattube angle @ 73.5 degrees across the sizes on the Darwin are as mad as a box of frogs,bonkers!


Another british company shot down in flames and sent into receivership :wink: . I suppose if you get into real fine tuning of position that may be relevant but my main standouts when looking for a frame are effective top tube, chainstay length, wheelbase( gives an idea of front centre and suitability as a tourer etc ). After that there are a couple of others but by that time I will have put it into CAD to experiment, it's only 15mins or less.w

There are many other variables all interacting with each other that the CAD is worth doing before committing to anything.

We've been through the S.A. movie many times on here before,which only leaves me to say that if you can't get the saddle back far enough,a perennial problem in this movie for tall people,then the rest of the measurements are useless.
On ETT length with 700c wheels and big rubber I can tolerate a difference of 2cm over 57cm which can be adjusted by stem length,but I can't tolerate 0.5 degree steeper than 72.5 degrees in S.A. without running out of saddle rail adjustment.
There isn't problem getting the saddle forward so why make frames with such little tolerance rearward?
I wouldn't know where to begin with CAD but I do know where I want my contact points on a bike frame,I couldn't tell you what any of the other geo figures are on their website because my first stop is S.A. if that isn't slack enough I look no further as the frame design IMHO is poor.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

old_windbag
Posts: 1869
Joined: 19 Feb 2015, 3:55pm

Re: New commuter - Disc Trucker

Postby old_windbag » 4 Jan 2018, 12:38pm

reohn2 wrote:We've been through the S.A. movie many times on here before


Fair enough, I've not been on long enough to have encountered that movie. Perhaps it's another forum can of worms such as with hi-viz, no-viz... helmet, no helmet etc.

I can see where you come from wrt saddle layback for the steeper angle. All my purchased fully built bikes have had layback seatposts, I'd never given them a second thought as I believed the manufacturers did it for a valid engineering reason. I am fortunate in being pretty well average in dimensions across the board( well outside of chest and stomach :) where I am below the uk male average ).

R2, the CAD is easy to do, free and is a useful tool when sizing frames and components. As I've said before it's a boon for those not able to travel the country sizing up bikes etc as not all shops have every size and model on show. So a useful tool.

A link to the one I've used for anyone interested:- http://rattlecad.sourceforge.net/ there are several others online.

Brucey
Posts: 35590
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: New commuter - Disc Trucker

Postby Brucey » 4 Jan 2018, 3:19pm

I note with interest that quite a lot of factory bikes come with (basic quality, single bolt) seat pins that have a fairly generous layback to them, but buying similar seat pins aftermarket is comparatively difficult. Something wrong in the supply chain, it seems....?

The seat pins I'm thinking of have the front of the clamp pretty much flush with the back of the seat pin diameter, on a 27.2mm pin.

I am equally fussy as R2 but I would be able to accept a 73.5 degree seat angle if such a seat pin is used, in combination with a suitable saddle. But with a Brooks saddle I'd still be in the poop, I'd need a slacker angle than that.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

reohn2
Posts: 35909
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: New commuter - Disc Trucker

Postby reohn2 » 4 Jan 2018, 4:11pm

Brucey wrote: But with a Brooks saddle I'd still be in the poop, I'd need a slacker angle than that.

cheers

I'd suggest you'd need at least a 72.5 deg seatube angle to get a Brooks far enough back on the kind of layback seatpost you suggest,whereas I'd need a 70 deg S.A. to get a Brooks far enough back for me without it being at the end of it's travel,I've broken a few rails on Brooks Pros over the years on 72deg frames due to needing them as far back on the rails before giving up on them.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

old_windbag
Posts: 1869
Joined: 19 Feb 2015, 3:55pm

Re: New commuter - Disc Trucker

Postby old_windbag » 4 Jan 2018, 4:50pm

Brucey wrote:The seat pins I'm thinking of have the front of the clamp pretty much flush with the back of the seat pin diameter, on a 27.2mm pin.


This is the seat post I got from SJS with pretty well what you describe, the front of the clamp roughly in line with back of post( well about 3-4mm ). It's light and cheap plus had the layback I was used to.

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/seat-posts/272-humpert-patent-seat-post-silver-300-mm/

I have a brooks B17 sitting on my table at present and must admit the design of the rails is rather restrictive for positioning compared to all my other saddles. Looking at it, it wouldn't be beyond simple engineering to make rails with a couple of cm's extra travel. On the B17 "normal" there is room. I put it back on a bike a few weeks ago to experience the plush ride........ it came off again and a charge spoon went back on :) . It wasn't harsh but being used to a narrower saddle I found my thighs tender with the side rubbing of the wider sides. It would take riding it regularly for that to go, for now I'm happy to stay on a spoon.

reohn2
Posts: 35909
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: New commuter - Disc Trucker

Postby reohn2 » 4 Jan 2018, 5:09pm

Windy
The seatpost linked to is high above the rails and bottoms(sorry)out on the base of the saddle more so if you're a heavy rider,this one is much better:- https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/seat-posts/ ... ck-350-mm/
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

old_windbag
Posts: 1869
Joined: 19 Feb 2015, 3:55pm

Re: New commuter - Disc Trucker

Postby old_windbag » 4 Jan 2018, 5:15pm

reohn2 wrote:seatpost linked to is high above the rails and bottoms(sorry)out


I also looked at this humpert curiosity -10mm to +50mm layback

https://www.ergotec.de/en/products/sattelstutzen/sub/patentsattelstutzen/produkt/futura.html

They also do a similar pin to the thorn one R2 linked, they call it a "hook" style and it looks identical to the one dawes fitted 20 years ago on the super galaxy, the layback is 25mm for that one.

reohn2
Posts: 35909
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: New commuter - Disc Trucker

Postby reohn2 » 4 Jan 2018, 5:20pm

Yes that one has been linked to before in previous 'movies' :wink:
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

PeterBL
Posts: 166
Joined: 26 Oct 2010, 1:04pm

Re: New commuter - Disc Trucker

Postby PeterBL » 5 Jan 2018, 1:50pm

andrew_s wrote:On-One Midge bars, Berthoud leather saddle & 50 mm stainless mudguards, 8-speed bar-end shifters, Tektro RL520 V-brake levers coupled to BB7 MTB brakes, with RL721 interrupter top lever, TA Zephyr 46/36/20 chainset, 11-32 cassette, XT rear mech, SunTour XC Pro front mech, SON front hub, XT M756 rear hub, LX17 rims, Voyager Hyper 37 mm tyres, Tubus Cargo rack.

Andrew, are you satisfied with the mudguards? The Berthoud's look nice but I have also read reports about difficult fitting, not very flexible for later adjustment once fitted and them being in need of more struts/stays. What is your take?