Campagnolo classic sidepull brakes … today

[Samuel D]

Still looking for greater simplicity of conception and maintenance with sufficient performance in my bicycle, I’ve wondered if the classic sidepull calliper brake might suit me. That is, single pivot instead of dual pivot, preferably with brake cables arching over the handlebar instead of aero routing.

I roughly measured the mechanical advantage of my present Shimano BR-R650 and BL-R400 set-up at 6:1. Traditional single-pivot callipers and levers come to about 4:1, so, prima facie, I’d be giving up about a third of the retardation for a given lever force. Since my current brakes are powerful verging on excessive in emergency stops, that would not present obvious problems.

Do you still have single-pivot brakes with externally routed cables on a frequently used bicycle? If so, is that for functional reasons?

I like the look of old Campagnolo Super/C-/Nuovo/plain Record brakes and levers. However, they’re expensive and various. Any tips for finding a good set at a reasonable price? I’m hoping to find something in NOS or mint condition to avoid inheriting the product of someone’s bad mechanicking.

I could con myself into thinking a high price was justified for something that would last a long time, but my BR-R650s are showing light corrosion on only their third winter. Maybe nothing lasts for long if used throughout the year.

Encouragement or cautionary tales are welcome.

[Brucey]

.....I could con myself into thinking a high price was justified for something that would last a long time, but my BR-R650s are showing light corrosion on only their third winter. Maybe nothing lasts for long if used throughout the year...

Ain't that the truth; no plated part is safe in the wintertime. I have made stainless steel springs for quite a few brakes that are subject to all-season use, because the originals went rusty.

One issue with many SP brakes is that the springs tend to bind where they bear against the arms. If there is a polymer sleeve then they cause less trouble; with the others a little lube is required to prevent binding; if one side runs dry, the brake will probably pull to one side and start to rub.

BTW NR brakes suffer a bit less than many others from corrosion because a good number (not all) of the plated parts are brass, not steel, underneath.

cheers

[jimlews]

I use Campag Gran Sport levers ( cables sprouting type ) in cahoots with Centaur ATB cantis on a touring bike. These levers work much better than the Campag ( hidden cables ) type that were 'designed' for the cantis. Also, I like exposed cables sprouting from the hoods. They give me a ( false? ) sense of security. With the so-called aerodynamic type I have a peculiar sense that I might slip off the front of the bike!

On another, older tourer, I have Weinman QR levers with CP calipers of the same make - No complaints there either.

In both cases I have nice modulated braking. The wheels won't lock up and cause a skid ( unless I want them to ).

[julianm]

If you go for the Gran Sport I think you get the same function but not the glorious polished finish. This makes them unattractive to the saddos who want to put them in a glass case so no-one else can own them.
Full set sold on Ebay for £42 - probably cheaper if you go to a jumble. I prefer the Mavic/Modolo `speedy` levers with the nice fat hoods.
Always thought `speedy was a daft name for brake levers - should have been `slowy`.

[foxyrider]

You could probably manage to set up a pair of current SR single pivots with some decent levers. I currently have two bikes with SR calipers one full DP the other the TT set with SP rear. TBH not noticed any difference in performance.

My Eroica bike runs Galli Criterium SP brakes, not my originals but a replacement set I spent about £100 on - back in the day (I hate that but it tells the story) they wee considered at least the equal of the Campag brakes of the time (we are talking late 70's), mine were in use through to the early 00's on various race bikes.

[willcee]

I have been a fan of Mavics last generation DP brakes for some years, myself and my cycling buddy both have them in preference to duraace or record on our high days machinery.. afaik they did some nice straightforward side pulls in the era you are considering SR AND REC.Mavic were always well engineered.. I have also used Mafac brakes with considerable retardation, CP with adjustable shoes.. Seeing you are habite in Paris it shouldn't be difficult to trawl some of the markets or jumbles or charity places that used to abound in the area and at that time were choc full of classy French machines..of course that may have changed..will

[Brucey]

If you go for the Gran Sport I think you get the same function but not the glorious polished finish...

the GS calipers have a two-position 'flip' type QR, with zinc plating on the QR lever, instead of the better finished eccentric QR on NR calipers.

IIRC (and I might not, I have not checked recently) both NR and GS brake arms are anodised, not polished per se.

cheers

[9494arnold]

There are a few decent high end old school brakes around. I have Trikes with extended nose second brake so I need to go for high end side pulls, a particular favourite is Weinman 405/605 or Carrera there's more than one incarnation but if you get the right one they are twice as stiff as the 400/500/730 etc and much better finished and they have a larger diameter pivot and a roller bearing between the arms. Then there Red S which are nicely finished, and there Dura Ace and Campag Record / Gran Sport and Magic.
But I have to say Shimano Sidepull/Centre pull actions were /are a revelation to me. I have a couple of pairs of Painted 105's on bikes.

[scottg]

GB Coureur brakes, but with Jagwire shimano style pad holders and kool stop pads,
Jagwire cables, they work well.

Hiduminium, made from recycled Me-109s


If you don't know how to centre them....
http://davesbikeblog.squarespace.com/bl ... rakes.html

[Samuel D]

BTW NR brakes suffer a bit less than many others from corrosion because a good number (not all) of the plated parts are brass, not steel, underneath.

That reminds me of marine equipment that withstands sea water for decades. You’d think they’d have solved bicycles by now!

You could probably manage to set up a pair of current SR single pivots with some decent levers.

An interesting idea in its own right, except that I’d need medium-reach callipers (or long- or standard-reach if you prefer, although the standard has been sub-50 mm for decades). The price is beyond me anyway.

Mavic made several brakes with intriguing features to reduce friction. I see them occasionally in the wild. The last ones I saw had an internal spring, maybe to avoid the asymmetric spring friction Brucey mentioned upthread. A dual-pivot model (that gets good user reviews) had some sort of leaf spring.

A complaint I have about dual-pivot brakes is the need to adjust the position of the short arm’s brake pad before the pad is done, and then again for a new pad. Rims with a taller brake track would fix this practical problem if not the inelegance.

Reviews of the classic Campagnolo single-pivot brakes are utterly divergent, so it’s impossible for me to imagine what they’re like to use. Some people might be reviewing their cables rather than their callipers. Others might be talking up the braking performance because they like the callipers for other reasons. They sure are pretty!

[Brucey]

I always thought that older (SP) Mavic brakes were essentially rebranded Modolo ones, but I might be mistaken in that. I'm not that familiar with their DP models.

FWIW if you have campag NR brakes in standard reach (not piccolo) and have the brake blocks in the bottom of the slots, you will have considerably lower MA than with most modern brakes. Add in any deficiency in the cables and the brakes will be very poor indeed, by modern standards.

cheers

[Vetus Ossa]

I have just sold a bike with Campag piccolo brakes with the shoes half way up the slot.
All of the cables were good, and the brake block were newish, but quite honestly they were pretty poor in operation.
They may have been state of the art in their day, but apart from looking beautiful I wouldn’t choose them for stopping power.
Mafac centre pulls were worse though.

[pwa]

And what looks great to one person doesn't look great to everyone. A lot of older models, to my eye, look quaintly flimsy and crude. That's just my own subjective view of course, and I don't care what other people like so long as they manage to stop at that T junction in the rain.

[Samuel D]

I have just sold a bike with Campag piccolo brakes with the shoes half way up the slot.
All of the cables were good, and the brake block were newish, but quite honestly they were pretty poor in operation.

Poor in what way? Did more force result in proportionally more braking, or did friction contrive to render more force almost or entirely unrewarded?

I’m a fit, young, light man, which is a best-case scenario for braking power (good grip strength per body weight). But I’m not set on Campagnolo brakes. The mixed opinions on them are off-putting.

The Shimano BR-6400 is nothing special to look at but might work better. The matching BL-6400 levers have non-aero cable routing and otherwise seem similar to my excellent BL-R400 levers. This ensemble (as in this old eBay listing) is tempting.

By the way, today I measured the offset and height of the second pivot on my BR-R650s. From this I calculated that, over the useful life of the short arm’s pad, the pad moves up the rim by over 2 mm – despite the pad having less depth of material than the old-style pads (probably to counter this very problem, although perhaps also to reduce squeal).

My Exal XR2 rims have an 8 mm machined brake track and my Kool-Stop pads are specified as 7.65 mm wide but rapidly get wider with wear. This explains why I need to adjust the pad height with wear. I’m starting to think I shouldn’t worry about the pad striking the rim below the machined track.

With short-reach dual-pivot brakes, the pad would creep up even faster with wear (unless the offset was proportionally less).

This problem would not arise with touring rims designed for cantilever brakes, i.e. with tall brake tracks.

[Mick F]

I have just sold a bike with Campag piccolo brakes with the shoes half way up the slot.
All of the cables were good, and the brake block were newish, but quite honestly they were pretty poor in operation.
They may have been state of the art in their day, but apart from looking beautiful I wouldn’t choose them for stopping power.

When I first built my Mercian in 1986, I fitted Campag Victory Piccolo brakes complete with matching levers.
They were excellent. No issues whatsoever. Great stopping power. I used them with Mavic MA40 rims.
I sold the brake set in 2004 when I modernised the whole group-set.

The Mercian now has Campag Athena D brakes - dual pivot at the front, and single pivot at the rear - operated by Campag Chorus Ergo levers. I can't say they are any better than the old Victory brakes.