Moulton TSR rear pivot

[Brucey]

IIRC the APB has a nut that can be accessed from the rear? The TSR is different then.

In any event I would not worry about taking the self tappers in and out; worst case outcome is that you have to redrill the holes in a different place in the part. You can obviously do this as many times as you like, until the suspension part looks like a colander/drillium victim, and it still won't show on the outside, or be significantly weakened.

cheers

[Mick F]

As far as I know, they all seem to be the same as mine.
http://www.moultonbicycles.co.uk/models.html
Maybe one or two are different, but the rest are the same as the TSR .............. which they don't make any more.

Yes, I suppose you could easy drill out new holes. The cone innards are only alu.

[gazza_d]

Another very interesting and enlightening thread.

I also have a TSR that I've just found has a very slight amount of play in the rear pivot. Mine is a 2015 TSR2 (now with a SRAM P5) with about 6700 miles of all weather riding to work and back.

I noticed it a day or so ago, and have not yet ordered a service kit. The pivot has been greased a few times, but nothing like the monthly routine some have advised. It may be that the unified design needs more maintenance than the old APB design, which "protects" the pivot by positioning behind the BB. The TSR design is going to get all the road muck thrown up at it. It does definately get much more muck than the APB pivot

I have even wondered about making a "gaiter" out of a bit of inner tube and cable ties just to cover the front of the pivot. I do have full guards and the SKS extra long mudflaps fitted to the bike as well. I'd be interested in any alternative and possibly easier and cheaper places to purchase things like the bushes and the pivot sleeve.

Mine went back to the factory after a few weeks as the pivot bolt suddenly came out after a few hundred miles and collapsed, bending one of the ears
The quality on a £1000+ bike has been slightly disappointing. The powder coat has flaked off on the rear dropouts, and I'm planning on having it repainted this summer to solve the issue. I got a fairly terse and unhelpful reply when I emailed Pashley about it. I appreciate the paint warranty was only 1 yr.

It will be interesting to see if the service kit makes a difference to riding as it did for Mick F. My TSR has always felt like a harsher ride than my APB (which has an alfine 11 btw), and I wonder if some of that is down to initial build.

Gary

[Mick F]

Hi Gary.

The powder coating on mine failed at the rear dropouts almost as soon as I took the rear wheel out. There's no issues though, just not as good as you'd expect.

As for ordering a service kit, you need to shop around. When I complained about the astronomical price Fudges were asking, they told me that it was a mistake, and they've reduced them now.

I still have to get back to my mate regarding making the stainless sleeves. If you can wait until I can track him down and ply him with a beer or two, I may be able to get them at a tiny fraction of the retail cost. You'd still have to get the bushes from Simply Bearings or somewhere and use the original bolt.
https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p1205 ... _info.html

Give me a week or so.

[gazza_d]

Thanks.

I need to get a new battery for the vernier, but those bushes look to be right. The bushes in my APB (well, out of it currently) are 1" in length, not 1/2"

I would expect the TSR to be similar. I'm just wary about using alternate parts though that may not be an exact match as it could be an expensive mistake if it trashes a frameset, so I'll be guided by the engineers on here

[Mick F]

This one of the (worn) bushes from my TSR.
Exactly the same as the ones from SB.
https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p1205 ... _info.html

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
Stainless Steel sleeves?
Is this the part that bears in the bushes?
If so I would not make that from stainless steel, it will wear quickly.
Sorry can't remember what part you are talking about as its been a while.

[Brucey]

it is, and it will. I mentioned it upthread.

The bush needs to be made from hardened steel or similar.

cheers

[Mick F]

Hi,
Stainless Steel sleeves?
Is this the part that bears in the bushes?
If so I would not make that from stainless steel, it will wear quickly.
Sorry can't remember what part you are talking about as its been a while.

It's the bottom pivot near the bottom bracket that the rear suspension hinges from. It moves very little as a "hinge" as the rear suspension is more of a cushion without much travel.

The hinge has a grease nipple for lube, but it's not easy to do, and the whole thing is vulnerable to the weather and muck as it's below the BB.

The spindle is a sleeve made from SS and is half inch diameter and two and a quarter inches long and hollow to take the securing bolt.
The sleeve sits in two bronze bushes fitted securely in the frame housing, with the suspended part held on by the securing bolt.

Question for you .........
What should the sleeve be made from to stop it wearing?
From what I can see, it's the bushes that have worn more than the sleeve.
These are the bushes.
https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p1205 ... _info.html

[Mick F]

The bush needs to be made from hardened steel or similar.

I'll have a word with my mate.
https://www.southdevonrailway.co.uk

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
Are you saying that the OEM part is stainless or does it look like stainless?
Stainless can be hardened but looses its corrosion resistant properties somewhat.

The design suffers from too small bearing diameter.
On the design......larger diameter.......rubber bushes / plastic bushes / composite plastic bushes but the later would still need a grease nipple, plastic could run happy dry as the movement is small, replacing plastic bushes at service intervals would keep the shaft / collar intact so cheap service.

Cheap rear suspension bikes use dry plastic bushes on steel shaft, the design is fail safe so its backed up with metal recessed bushes in case the bearing fails....................simply cheap and performance is always maintained.......

[Mick F]

Are you saying that the OEM part is stainless or does it look like stainless?

It's completely non-magnetic and looks like stainless and has no sign of corrosion.

It measures a thou and a half under half an inch diameter in the unworn centre ............... but two and a half under on the worn ends.
Knowing what I know now, I'd be buying a few pairs of replacement bushes, because I guess that a thou of wear is next to nothing in the grand scheme of things.

It's the bushes that have worn enough to create the play, not the SS sleeve, though the sleeve wear must contribute.

I await advice on this.
Is it worth the effort to my mate to manufacture a new sleeve, when all it needs is new bushes?

[Mick F]

Tell you what .................. I'll experiment.

It's likely to be raining for much of the day and Mrs Mick F is going out this afternoon, so I may have time to swap the new sleeve for the old one. Bearing (pun) in mind that the bushes are just about brand new, I'll see if the old slightly worn sleeve will produce play.

If not .................... we're onto a winner.
Tenner worth of bushes vs sixty quid for the complete kit.

[Mick F]

Tell you what .................. I'll experiment.

Well ..............................................

I had nothing better to do, so I removed the rear triangle off the bike.
This involves disconnection of both derailleurs and the rear brake, and also my Sturmey Archer cable. Then the removal of the four self tappers in the suspension cone, and then the pivot bolt. I turned the bike upside down for this.

I took out the hinge pin and pulled away the rear triangle and set it aside, then withdrew the stainless sleeve, wiped it clean and took some measurements with my Imperial 1" micrometer as a comparison of the new sleeve and the old one.

Measurements:

Old centre = 498.5 thou
Old end 1 = 497.5 thou
Old end 2 = 497.25 thou

New centre = 498.5 thou
New end 1 = 498.5 thou
New end 2 = 498.25 thou

Looks like there's a slight tolerance issue here in the manufacture.


Next, I inserted the old sleeve and temporarily mounted the rear triangle only screwing in one of the self tappers. The pivot bolt went in easily and I tightened it up then sat the bike the right way up.

I checked for play .......................................

None that I could feel at all.

This means that if the sleeve isn't worn too much, it's possible to fit new bushes to cure the play. This also means that you could get a few pairs of bushes and replace them annually(?) and the rear suspension pivot could last and last and last.


Meanwhile, I'll leave the old sleeve in position, keep it greased and monitor the situation. I may buy a new pair of bushes too.

[Mick F]

PS:
Just looked at Fudges and they have the WHOLE kit for £12 + P+P.
None in stock though.

It looks like they listened to me about their astronomical price for the kit.
https://fudgescyclestore.com/product/m8 ... olt_kit_ea