Can I make my Brooks flat again?

[jeatsy]

I own a Brooks B17 and I swear it's not as comfortable as it used to be. Some googling suggests that it's sagging too much, and I can restore it by immersing it in water and then reshaping it. Does anyone have experience of this?

Below are some pics of the saddle. The indoors pics are from tonight, the outdoors one was September-ish. It's 5 years old, maybe 8 to 10,000 miles, and often gets wet. Can someone advise whether it's too far gone? Until today I hadn't looked at any new ones since buying it, and I had forgotten that they start off flat !!

I stopped at a bike shop on tour in Ireland about 2,500 miles ago and the mechanic turned the tension screw - quite a bit, if I recall. Until that point I'd never turned it. Should I back it out before the water-and-reshape exercise?

[andrew_s]

It certainly looks like the tension bolt should be screwed out some, so there's less of the threaded section towards the rear of the saddle exposed.
The tension bolt doesn't look to be screwed out much at all - maybe it's screwed itself back in?
You'll need a Brooks spanner to adjust the tension bolt
http://www.brooksengland.com/en_uk/stan ... anner.html

Rather than reshaping the saddle by soaking it, I'd suggest that you lace the flaps. Put some holes along the edges at the deepest part, and lace the left and right sides together underneath the saddle.
Brooks sell some models that are pre-laced
http://www.brooksengland.com/en_uk/b17- ... ial-3.html

[mattsccm]

Talk to Brooks. They may help.

[amediasatex]

I successfully reblocked one about as hammocked as that, and also lopsided a few months ago, it's almost as good as new now.

I used the soakng method, tension fully backed off first, dunk and soak, then used towels and toe clip straps, and a flat bit of wood to reshape and then left it cinched down like that under a big pile of books for a few days to dry out.

Then treated, and retreated a few times, seems to have done the trick, I didn't do before pics but I can post up an after pic later.

[pwa]

If you have reached a point where the saddle is finished unless you fix it, what's to be lost from having a go?

[Cyril Haearn]

Pure water? Cold or warm? How long?

[Bonefishblues]

It certainly looks like the tension bolt should be screwed out some, so there's less of the threaded section towards the rear of the saddle exposed.
The tension bolt doesn't look to be screwed out much at all - maybe it's screwed itself back in?
You'll need a Brooks spanner to adjust the tension bolt
http://www.brooksengland.com/en_uk/stan ... anner.html

This seems the obvious first step before immersion.

[531colin]

Pretty good illustration of why you shouldn't get a leather saddle soaked then ride it.
Why not carry a plastic bag to cover the saddle when parked? My saddles only get damp when I'm actually sitting on them, even if I get soaked to the skin. Once you are soaked to the skin, its no more uncomfortable sitting on a plastic bag.
That saddle is so far gone that you may not be able to fix it, but on the other hand there is little to be lost by having a go. I like to move about on my saddle, they are horrible to ride like that, when you get fixed in a "hammock" between the metal bits.

If you just lace it and tension it, I think you will pull it into a conical shape but the sag will remain. I think you need to re-shape it while wet, and lace it as well before you tension it (as little tension as you can get away with).
Soak in ordinary cold water for an hour. Let it drain for hours, so its saturated but no longer has water running out of the leather. To remove the sag, stuff it between the rails and the leather with anything that comes to hand.....tennis balls, rags. To restore the "waisted" shape, bind it with the nylon webbing straps that have ratchet buckles.....as used for tying down loads in pickups, etc. Toestraps would probably do. Leave it somewhere cool and ventilated to dry.....for days. Once dry, lace it and tension it as little as you can get away with. Give it some Proofide.

[Cyril Haearn]

Wind the bolt just a bit to avoid straining the leather, then do the same again..

[deliquium]

Soak in ordinary cold water for an hour. Let it drain for hours, so its saturated but no longer has water running out of the leather. To remove the sag, stuff it between the rails and the leather with anything that comes to hand.....tennis balls, rags. To restore the "waisted" shape, bind it with the nylon webbing straps that have ratchet buckles.....as used for tying down loads in pickups, etc. Toestraps would probably do. Leave it somewhere cool and ventilated to dry.....for days. Once dry, lace it and tension it as little as you can get away with. Give it some Proofide.

^ Exactly what I did to a second hand, not very old but badly mis-shapen Brooks B17 Imperial. It's now one of my most comfortable saddles.

I sparingly and periodically (6 monthly?) apply Proofide to the top surface only - but especially after the saddle's dried out following a soaking whilst riding - although only the nose section seems to get affected (as evidenced by discolouration and loss of sheen when dry again). My body and jacket offer some protection to the rest of the saddle and doesn't get as wet. This refers to mudguarded bikes.

[ANTONISH]

If you just lace it and tension it, I think you will pull it into a conical shape but the sag will remain. I think you need to re-shape it while wet, and lace it as well before you tension it (as little tension as you can get away with).
Soak in ordinary cold water for an hour. Let it drain for hours, so its saturated but no longer has water running out of the leather. To remove the sag, stuff it between the rails and the leather with anything that comes to hand.....tennis balls, rags. To restore the "waisted" shape, bind it with the nylon webbing straps that have ratchet buckles.....as used for tying down loads in pickups, etc. Toestraps would probably do. Leave it somewhere cool and ventilated to dry.....for days. Once dry, lace it and tension it as little as you can get away with. Give it some Proofide.[/quote]

I seem to remember an article in "Cycling" describing this method ( when Sportives were unknown and we had proper 100 mile reliability trials).
Reading the section on "pure finders" in Mayhew's "London working London poor" I think that soaking the leather in a mixture of urine and dog faeces may be more efficacious than pure water

You could try what we did in the fifties and remove the existing rivets from the back with a hammer and cold chisel - then you can soak the leather separately . Replace the old rivets with mushroom head copper ones.
Reblock as Colin suggests. +1 for the proofide and on both sides.

Alternatively buy a modern saddle that is comfortable to start with

[simonhill]

I have 2 Brooks and had a third, now sold with bike.

My problem with all of them has been tightening the bolt. Even on a fairly new saddle the bolt turns the whole spindle and therefore does not tighten. The spindle is meant to be stopped from turning by a pathetic little spur on the metal nose piece.

I can just about tighten the bolt by using liberal amounts of WD40 on it and then holding the spindle with a locking wrench.

On the subject of dip in the saddle, my touring sprung Brooks has a dip in it and I like it - I sort of sink into it with my sit bones on the back. You have to be careful not to let it sag too much or the leather sits on the rails.

[JohnW]

I had this problem myself - decades ago - and the solution that I eventually arrived at was to buy a new saddle - hey though, beware that saddle - you don't want to get reshuffled in the choir!

I don't know when you bought the saddle - in my (admittedly limited) experience Brooks went through a bad patch in the region of 15 years ago, and a Brand new B17 that I bought was like yours - brand new - out of the box - and the LBS had one helluva job getting Brooks agents to sort it. In fact, my LBS replaced it for me immediately but I honestly don't know whether they ever got satisfaction from the agents.

A Brooks Pro, that I bought at about that same time, went into unbelievable grotesque shapes after about 1500 miles - it was almost like science fiction! - again the LBS sorted it for me (Spa in this case), but I think that it was at their own expense.

The B17 and the Pro that replaced them have been fine. I think it's important to treat and tension leather saddles as the instructions say.

[jeatsy]

Thanks everyone for the replies and tips. I've got some velcro straps, and tennis balls are a good idea - I just tried and they're exactly the right size. I'll try the soaking method described by 531colin and amediasatex, but I'm not clear on how necessary the lacing is? So long as I use a saddle cover from now on, then won't a reshaped saddle stay reshaped without the need for lacing?

Looking at the Brooks web site, I think the ones that come with laces are the aged ones (which apparently start off softer) and the ones with a cut-out (which I guess undermines their structure a bit). So maybe mine now falls into the "aged and therefore lacing is a good idea" category...

EDIT - one more thing: If I back the tension screw out before soaking, should I screw it back in once the whole procedure is done, or leave it backed out?

[531colin]

Lacing will tend to help retain the "waisted" shape, and stops the edges from sticking out and rubbing your thighs.....I would rather the edges rolled in than stuck out. Probably makes the top firmer, as well, because it changes the way the saddle flexes.....when laced, the sides can't simply flare out as the top sinks, the sides also have to flex? ...or something? .
Re. the tension screw, you'll have to try it and see.....your saddle top looks pretty stretched to me, my guide would be to tension it as little as you can get away with throughout the process.