Campag Veloce shifter : front derailleur : downshift problem

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SmilerGB
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Campag Veloce shifter : front derailleur : downshift problem

Postby SmilerGB » 22 Jan 2018, 12:40pm

Every time I’m in top gear on the front chainring & I wanna drop one click to allow use of the lower gears on the rear, I press the thumb shift once & it drops to bottom cog I’ve tried reducing cable tension but then have issue with front shifting all together, any advice would be appreciated.

It’s driving me nuts ☹️
Last edited by Graham on 22 Jan 2018, 7:12pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Brucey
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Re: Sti lever front derailleur downshift issues

Postby Brucey » 22 Jan 2018, 1:04pm

you have a triple chainset?

sounds like (if you are lucky) the STI mechanism needs lube. If you are unlucky, it is on the way to being properly broken.

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SmilerGB
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Re: Sti lever front derailleur downshift issues

Postby SmilerGB » 22 Jan 2018, 1:06pm

Double chainset it’s on my cyclocross & they are only a couple of months old
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Brucey
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Re: Sti lever front derailleur downshift issues

Postby Brucey » 22 Jan 2018, 1:10pm

in which case maybe I misunderstood the problem. Is it really a problem with the rear shifting? Please clarify what your problem actually is, and what parts you are using.

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SmilerGB
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Re: Sti lever front derailleur downshift issues

Postby SmilerGB » 22 Jan 2018, 1:17pm

Campagnolo veloce groupset, they have the thumb shift on the side of the hoods which should drop the gear once.

Road gearing has a intermediate position in each of the front gears to reduce the cross chaining allowing use of the full rear cassette, problem is for some reason I can’t get it to shift down these positions one at a time it drops straight to the lowest position.
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Brucey
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Re: Sti lever front derailleur downshift issues

Postby Brucey » 22 Jan 2018, 1:50pm

I see, you are trying to trim the front mech, and instead it slams down onto the small chainring? Strictly speaking you have an Ergo problem, not an STI problem; STI is a shimano thing.

Is it possible that the cable is very tight (i.e. the mech is hard against the stop screw) when you shift onto the big ring? If so when you unlatch the mechanism it sees a mighty force, which (sadly) the recent veloce ergo mechanism may not be able to cope with for very long.

IIRC there is a mechanism inside the shifters which looks like it came out of a Christmas cracker, which is meant to control the payout of the cable. There is a plastic prong (that you can't remove or buy as a spare part) that is meant to engage with a toothy metal wheel and this is meant to stop the mechanism from paying out the cable too much/quickly. Unsurprisingly plastic prong just wears away given half a chance; this is assisted by excessive cable tension, and also perhaps by prodding the shift button only part-way down. The mechs that go with this shifter type have reduced spring tension vs earlier mechs, without which the shifters won't make it through the warranty period without the plastic prong wearing away.

If you can adjust the FD cable so that the shifter goes onto the last click without the cable being fantastically tight with the mech hard against the stop screw (a turn more on a barrel adjuster may do it), maybe it will work OK for a while. But my suspicion is that the shifter is already jiggered, and/or well on its way to being jiggered. The rear shifter won't be far behind BTW.

If they are like I describe inside, those shifters are #1 in my 'worst campag shifters of all time' league (up against some tough competition including indexed shifting that wouldn't work at all, pretty much.... :roll: ). Because the prong is not removable or replaceable, the only repair offered is to replace the shifter body. A single shifter body is only about £15 cheaper than a complete pair of shifters.....

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SmilerGB
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Re: Sti lever front derailleur downshift issues

Postby SmilerGB » 22 Jan 2018, 2:40pm

Managed to get a central position in the big ring where I can use the whole rear cassette without rubbing will do for now as it’s mainly a commuter bike & winter trainer
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PeterBL
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Re: Sti lever front derailleur downshift issues

Postby PeterBL » 22 Jan 2018, 4:21pm

If I read you correctly, this is just how Campagnolo PowerShift works for the FD. You can only trim going upwards/towards bigger gears. When you go down, you jump chainrings.

Page 19 (or 36): https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/ ... agnolo.pdf

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SmilerGB
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Re: Sti lever front derailleur downshift issues

Postby SmilerGB » 22 Jan 2018, 4:39pm

Im use to shimano where they have two position for each front rings to allow you to use the full rear cassette without rubbing on the front derailleur.

I assumed campognolo would work on the same method.
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foxyrider
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Re: Sti lever front derailleur downshift issues

Postby foxyrider » 22 Jan 2018, 9:37pm

SmilerGB wrote:Im use to shimano where they have two position for each front rings to allow you to use the full rear cassette without rubbing on the front derailleur.

I assumed campognolo would work on the same method.

I have 2016 Veloce shifters on my winter/audax bike which gets pretty hammered and no maintenance. (these have the silly little flap rather than the proper inside lever) I can confirm that the trim only works on the up stroke, it goes straight to the inner ring on the drop. It takes a bit of getting used to, especially as all my other levers have LH micro adjust (v/o Veloce 10 triple, Chorus carbon 11, SRecord Race carbon 11)

So far they've worked nice and crisply (well apart from user error shifter lock up!) They replaced previous model Veloce with MA that wouldn't release brake cable! Go figure.
Convention? what's that then?
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SmilerGB
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Re: Campag Veloce shifter : front derailleur : downshift problem

Postby SmilerGB » 22 Jan 2018, 9:41pm

Thanks for all the info. I will see how I get on with them if not when I replace my ultegra on my road bike I will cascade these down to the cyclocross & get rid of the campy I think.
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Re: Sti lever front derailleur downshift issues

Postby Brucey » 23 Jan 2018, 7:51am

foxyrider wrote: I have 2016 Veloce shifters ...... I can confirm that the trim only works on the up stroke.....


if I ever knew this I had forgotten it. It sounds like a daft arrangement to me.

...They replaced previous model Veloce with MA that wouldn't release brake cable! Go figure.


eh?

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foxyrider
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Re: Sti lever front derailleur downshift issues

Postby foxyrider » 23 Jan 2018, 9:01am

Brucey wrote:
foxyrider wrote: ...They replaced previous model Veloce with MA that wouldn't release brake cable! Go figure.


eh?

cheers


Exactly, the gear shift works fine but pull on the brakes and they don't release. Different brakes, cables etc made no difference. It started with rh lever then lh developed same issue - answers on a postcard. Oh they'd only done maybe 5k miles.
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

Brucey
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Re: Campag Veloce shifter : front derailleur : downshift problem

Postby Brucey » 23 Jan 2018, 9:10am

I am somewhat intrigued! Which model Veloce were they? What brake calipers/cables/lube did you use?

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Mick F
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Re: Sti lever front derailleur downshift issues

Postby Mick F » 23 Jan 2018, 9:30am

foxyrider wrote: ........... gear shift works fine but pull on the brakes and they don't release. Different brakes, cables etc made no difference. It started with rh lever then lh developed same issue - answers on a postcard. Oh they'd only done maybe 5k miles.
That sounds to me - at first thought - that the callipers are binding at the pivots. They are adjustable, so loosen them off and see how they get on.
Mick F. Cornwall