The timeless appeal of 7-speed gearing

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Mick F
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Re: The timeless appeal of 7-speed gearing

Postby Mick F » 7 Feb 2018, 10:34am

Samuel D wrote:I can’t count the number of people I drifted away from ...........
Same here, and not just through pedalling.

An example, and there have been plenty.
I was cycling with an End2Ender a few years ago and we turned off the main road onto a minor one. We chatted as we rode along.
I was freewheeling, and he had to keep up by pedalling. I put that down to my having faster tyres and wheels than his as we were similar sizes and weights.

Conversely, I was cycling with another End2Ender heading west on the old A30. He was the first rider that didn't need to pedal to keep up with me. Therefore bikes and efficiency vary.

BTW, there's no way you can freewheel at 40mph down the A390 heading west into the valley. It's a steady 8% (I think) for a mile.
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Samuel D
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Re: The timeless appeal of 7-speed gearing

Postby Samuel D » 7 Feb 2018, 11:27am

Mick F wrote:BTW, there's no way you can freewheel at 40mph down the A390 heading west into the valley. It's a steady 8% (I think) for a mile.

So why not? If I put my figures into Bike Calculator (using “Tubulars” because their tubular is closer to my tyre’s rolling resistance, and “Aerobar” for the position although my full tuck is assuredly better than any pedalling position with aerobars), I get a freewheeling (zero watts) speed of 45 miles per hour for a −8% gradient. And heavier riders should be faster than I am.

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Mick F
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Re: The timeless appeal of 7-speed gearing

Postby Mick F » 7 Feb 2018, 1:38pm

Something wrong with the calculation then.
Best thing you can do, is to come down here for a visit, and we'll have a ride out together. :D

Here's the hill.
Screen Shot 2018-02-07 at 13.37.17.png
Mick F. Cornwall

Samuel D
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Re: The timeless appeal of 7-speed gearing

Postby Samuel D » 7 Feb 2018, 1:46pm

I’d love to, but that’s only a 6% gradient according to those figures. Bike Calculator reckons that’s only good for 38 mph in my case. I see there are curves too. Those won’t help.

Looks like a fun hill all the same.

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Re: The timeless appeal of 7-speed gearing

Postby Cugel » 7 Feb 2018, 4:18pm

Mick F wrote:
Samuel D wrote:I can’t count the number of people I drifted away from ...........
Same here, and not just through pedalling.

An example, and there have been plenty.
I was cycling with an End2Ender a few years ago and we turned off the main road onto a minor one. We chatted as we rode along.
I was freewheeling, and he had to keep up by pedalling. I put that down to my having faster tyres and wheels than his as we were similar sizes and weights.

Conversely, I was cycling with another End2Ender heading west on the old A30. He was the first rider that didn't need to pedal to keep up with me. Therefore bikes and efficiency vary.
...........

Indeed - it still surprises me that even the racing lads of the club cannot seem to grasp basic mechanics or physics and so throw away their work on all sorts of rubs, writhes and general wastage of watts. I have this theory that folk who didn't do physics and mechanics at skool are at a great disadvantage when it comes to the 1001 pertinent matters of everyday life (including cycling) where a basic understanding of forces and energy would be advantageous.

On virtually every club run when I find myself on the front and on a downward slope of any significance, I'm freewheeling away from the un-tucked pedallers. They never learn! Same story when we're pushing along a bit and there they are aside me sweating and panting not because I'm fitter but because they throw away 1/Nth of their watts writhing about on the saddle, weaving their line and gripping manfully on the bars for reasons that escape me. Cuh!

ALso there's the tyre thing. They won't accept wider and lower pressures, despite the evidence I provide for them that the fat low pressure things wrapping my rims are going along rather well and not losing traction on them back lanes neither.

Then there's the [that's enough moaning about other cyclists and their inferiorities - the forum decorum monitor].

Yes, they all have 11 sprockets too .... and Garmins .... and power meters .... and various other stuff the function of which seems to be only "empty wallet via fashion show and churn".

Cugel

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Mick F
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Re: The timeless appeal of 7-speed gearing

Postby Mick F » 7 Feb 2018, 4:25pm

My records show 518ft at the top (agrees with BikeHike) and 57ft at the bottom (disagrees with BikeHike)
Distance 1.38miles (1.34miles for BikeHike)
Off out shortly, but it needs some arithmetic here!

1.38miles 461ft.
1760 x 3ft x 1.38 = feet travelled = 7286.4ft
461/7286.4 = 6.3%
I could have sworn it was steeper than that. It certainly feels like it going up! :oops:

I tend to freewheel without tucking up to a max of 32mph. If I really tried to get tucked, I have managed 37mph.
Pedalling, I can get over 40mph.
Mick F. Cornwall

brynpoeth
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Re: The timeless appeal of 7-speed gearing

Postby brynpoeth » 7 Feb 2018, 4:35pm

This Great Club of Ours used to organise freewheeling competitions,
.. and events riding a circuit in different directions, the aim was to do the circuit in the same time in each direction
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Re: The timeless appeal of 7-speed gearing

Postby fastpedaller » 7 Feb 2018, 10:57pm

brynpoeth wrote:This Great Club of Ours used to organise freewheeling competitions,
.. and events riding a circuit in different directions, the aim was to do the circuit in the same time in each direction


Those sound like fun competitions!

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Re: The timeless appeal of 7-speed gearing

Postby The utility cyclist » 8 Feb 2018, 12:19am

amediasatex wrote:
Not a single person here doesn't have modern tech and I bet they wouldn't go back to the previous step otherwise they would still be there


Well that's a bet already lost, I'm not the only one on this thread to have said they have either 'back-graded' or deliberately chosen an older setup on a new build where it's more appropriate for the use.

Some modern tech is great for everyone, some modern tech is good for the majority, some modern tech is good for a minority and some is no good for anyone.

You're using a computer/internet, I'll cash in thanks. 8) :lol:

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Re: The timeless appeal of 7-speed gearing

Postby amediasatex » 8 Feb 2018, 9:29am

The utility cyclist wrote:
amediasatex wrote:
Not a single person here doesn't have modern tech and I bet they wouldn't go back to the previous step otherwise they would still be there


Well that's a bet already lost, I'm not the only one on this thread to have said they have either 'back-graded' or deliberately chosen an older setup on a new build where it's more appropriate for the use.

Some modern tech is great for everyone, some modern tech is good for the majority, some modern tech is good for a minority and some is no good for anyone.

You're using a computer/internet, I'll cash in thanks. 8) :lol:


Nonsense, like I said in my post, some stuff good for all, some good for some, some good for none. Your bet was that nobody would go backwards, which is demonstrably false as some of us have. It doesn't have to hold true for every aspect of our lives. :roll:

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Re: The timeless appeal of 7-speed gearing

Postby brynpoeth » 9 Feb 2018, 4:42pm

fastpedaller wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:This Great Club of Ours used to organise freewheeling competitions,
.. and events riding a circuit in different directions, the aim was to do the circuit in the same time in each direction


Those sound like fun competitions!

There was also the BCTC a competition to find the best cycletourist, or is it still held?
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Re: The timeless appeal of 7-speed gearing

Postby The utility cyclist » 9 Feb 2018, 6:34pm

Samuel D wrote:
Mick F wrote:BTW, there's no way you can freewheel at 40mph down the A390 heading west into the valley. It's a steady 8% (I think) for a mile.

So why not? If I put my figures into Bike Calculator (using “Tubulars” because their tubular is closer to my tyre’s rolling resistance, and “Aerobar” for the position although my full tuck is assuredly better than any pedalling position with aerobars), I get a freewheeling (zero watts) speed of 45 miles per hour for a −8% gradient. And heavier riders should be faster than I am.

Do you have some data to back up that statement, because not just I but others will say that's not accurate.

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Re: The timeless appeal of 7-speed gearing

Postby The utility cyclist » 9 Feb 2018, 6:39pm

amediasatex wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:
amediasatex wrote:
Well that's a bet already lost, I'm not the only one on this thread to have said they have either 'back-graded' or deliberately chosen an older setup on a new build where it's more appropriate for the use.

Some modern tech is great for everyone, some modern tech is good for the majority, some modern tech is good for a minority and some is no good for anyone.

You're using a computer/internet, I'll cash in thanks. 8) :lol:


Nonsense, like I said in my post, some stuff good for all, some good for some, some good for none. Your bet was that nobody would go backwards, which is demonstrably false as some of us have. It doesn't have to hold true for every aspect of our lives. :roll:

So you decided to use your values of what going back the next step was to try to win your argument but ignore what my words actually were, okay :lol:

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Re: The timeless appeal of 7-speed gearing

Postby Samuel D » 9 Feb 2018, 7:03pm

The utility cyclist wrote:
Samuel D wrote:So why not? If I put my figures into Bike Calculator (using “Tubulars” because their tubular is closer to my tyre’s rolling resistance, and “Aerobar” for the position although my full tuck is assuredly better than any pedalling position with aerobars), I get a freewheeling (zero watts) speed of 45 miles per hour for a −8% gradient. And heavier riders should be faster than I am.

Do you have some data to back up that statement, because not just I but others will say that's not accurate.

Name these others.

I have no data, but it’s a safe guess that a full tuck is more aerodynamic than a pedalling position. If not, why would you go to the full tuck? My downhill posture is a bit like Obree’s egg position, except a bit lower, with a straighter back (because I don’t need to pedal), and knees in.

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Re: The timeless appeal of 7-speed gearing

Postby [XAP]Bob » 9 Feb 2018, 7:14pm

Chris froome May have something to say on the matter..

When speed matters more than efficiency he was pedalling away
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.