Any one here has such a bike ( 26" wheels?) and transports it around on buses or trains etc? is that practical?
would be cheaper for me than buying a new bike to get used to.
S&S coupled frames and bikes
Re: S&S coupled frames and bikes
You can have almost any frame retrofitted with S&S couplings, as long as the tubes are round 
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
Re: S&S coupled frames and bikes
Nu-Fogey
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Cyril Haearn
- Posts: 15215
- Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am
Re: S&S coupled frames and bikes
Only GBP 750!
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
Re: S&S coupled frames and bikes
Cyril Haearn wrote:Only GBP 750!
It starts from £600. It's not a job for the newbie!
Btw, the best thing you want on a bus is a proper folding bike
otherwise just get organized and rational and use a bike that can be packed "Rinko" style
Too complicated? Get a proper Moulton, or a Brompton
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
Re: S&S coupled frames and bikes
I suppose the question depends upon whether you will be mostly cycling, in which case you'd likely prefer a proper bike or mostly on public transport then using the bike for a few miles, in which case you could compromise on the bicycle itself.
Re: S&S coupled frames and bikes
Freddie wrote:I suppose the question depends upon whether you will be mostly cycling, in which case you'd likely prefer a proper bike or mostly on public transport then using the bike for a few miles, in which case you could compromise on the bicycle itself.
Sure, there are many variables. The S&S are an answer to issue packability size.
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
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speedsixdave
- Posts: 868
- Joined: 19 Apr 2007, 1:48pm
- Location: Ashbourne, UK
Re: S&S coupled frames and bikes
We have them on the tandem and they're brilliant for that. Three couplers and three cable splitters (and something for your dynamo wire) and the otherwise-intact tandem goes straight into the back of our C3 Picasso. There's no messing about with saddles or handlebars and you don't need to remove mudguards or racks. All in all a much simpler thing than Gattenero's Rinkyo bike, nice though that is.
We can certainly split and rejoin the bike inside five minutes. You do need the right spanner and it's much easier with two people than one as it really requires three hands, but it can in extremis be done by one person alone. Once bike is together again and the couplers are tight you absolutely can't tell they are there, although if you are a worrier it is one more thing to play on your mind as you approach 50mph downhill. Did I remember to tighten the couplers fully???
The downside - cost apart - is that once split all you have is two smaller parts of bike, rather than a compact package designed to be stowed and carried like a Brompton. It certainly makes carrying a bike (especially a tandem) much easier inside your own car or possibly on enlightened non-UK public transport, but if you rock up to a typical UK bus, train or plane, they're not going to be persuaded that what you have in your hands is not a pedal cycle. With effort you could probably get your bike into two bags not much larger than your wheels, which might be advantageous, but again it won't be the same sort of smooth packing experience that you might get from a Bike Friday or Brompton.
Because it's fundamentally the same principle - a central split - most of the above comments also apply to separable Moultons. The split and join is much easier to do with one person and two hands on a Moulton because of the base hook and triangulation, and because the whole bike is smaller the resulting package is rather smaller too, but you've still got two halves of a pedal cycle unless you do quite a lot more deconstruction and packing.
We can certainly split and rejoin the bike inside five minutes. You do need the right spanner and it's much easier with two people than one as it really requires three hands, but it can in extremis be done by one person alone. Once bike is together again and the couplers are tight you absolutely can't tell they are there, although if you are a worrier it is one more thing to play on your mind as you approach 50mph downhill. Did I remember to tighten the couplers fully???
The downside - cost apart - is that once split all you have is two smaller parts of bike, rather than a compact package designed to be stowed and carried like a Brompton. It certainly makes carrying a bike (especially a tandem) much easier inside your own car or possibly on enlightened non-UK public transport, but if you rock up to a typical UK bus, train or plane, they're not going to be persuaded that what you have in your hands is not a pedal cycle. With effort you could probably get your bike into two bags not much larger than your wheels, which might be advantageous, but again it won't be the same sort of smooth packing experience that you might get from a Bike Friday or Brompton.
Because it's fundamentally the same principle - a central split - most of the above comments also apply to separable Moultons. The split and join is much easier to do with one person and two hands on a Moulton because of the base hook and triangulation, and because the whole bike is smaller the resulting package is rather smaller too, but you've still got two halves of a pedal cycle unless you do quite a lot more deconstruction and packing.
Big wheels good, small wheels better.
Two saddles best!
Two saddles best!
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cycle tramp
- Posts: 3572
- Joined: 5 Aug 2009, 7:22pm
Re: S&S coupled frames and bikes
My last 'new bicycle' used a frame with s&s couplings... and whilst i found that they allowed me to split the bike in two pieces, they were quite large pieces..
..in order to attempt to get the rest of the bike down to something like 26" wide pieces, i then had to take off the pedals, rear wheel, front wheel, front mudguard, handle bars, rack and rear mudguard. Thats rather alot of bits to carry, especially if i had a full set of panniers & tent...
..and whilst the parts assembles into a 26 inch tourer, it did take me over half an hour to build it back up with working brakes & gears.
Needless to say the frame is hanging from the shed wall.. and i rather wished that i had used the money to buy a birdy folding bike..
However... now that i've purchased the frame, it would be rather a waste if i didn"t find an easier way of turning the frame into a more convient collapsable bicycle.
..in order to attempt to get the rest of the bike down to something like 26" wide pieces, i then had to take off the pedals, rear wheel, front wheel, front mudguard, handle bars, rack and rear mudguard. Thats rather alot of bits to carry, especially if i had a full set of panniers & tent...
..and whilst the parts assembles into a 26 inch tourer, it did take me over half an hour to build it back up with working brakes & gears.
Needless to say the frame is hanging from the shed wall.. and i rather wished that i had used the money to buy a birdy folding bike..
However... now that i've purchased the frame, it would be rather a waste if i didn"t find an easier way of turning the frame into a more convient collapsable bicycle.
Re: S&S coupled frames and bikes
if you are regularly (daily or weekly) travelling by train or bus then you probably need a proper folding bike (PFB), i.e.one that packs down to a transportable size in about a minute or less.
Anything that isn't one of those is likely to be much better suited to 'going touring by bike' i.e. where you might travel quite a long way by train, tour round for a few days, and then take another train back again. Then spending 15 minutes packing up the bike (be it rinko or S&S or whatever) isn't such a big deal.
S&S couplings can allow bikes (with the forks in still, or tandems) to be carried on airlines easily/at all, or without an outsize luggage charge, if they have constraints on luggage size etc.
An issue that many people have is that PFBs are not (conventionally speaking) particularly good bikes to ride. In my dreams I go to somewhere exotic and unusual, and ride my most favourite bike there. For me, doing that on a PFB isn't the same thing at all.
As a compromise I have built a kind of touring bike by starting with a Rudge (Montague) biframe, which in standard condition looks like this
and (front wheel out) folds like this
in just a few seconds.
Mine uses the smaller size frame (the pictures are of a large frame version) and I have fitted it with dropped bars, SPDs, friction shifters mounted under the stem nosebolt, a deore 3x8 speed transmission, and uses 1.25" slick tyres. Mounted on 559 rims, the skinny tyres mean the wheels are appreciably smaller than 26"; the actual wheel diameter is close to 24-1/2" .
Obviously my contraption goes in the back of a car very easily, but is not (officially anyway) quite small enough to qualify as a folding bike on all railways or buses. In theory once wrapped (in a bin liner or similar) it would qualify as 'outsize luggage' and be carried on trains and buses despite being a bicycle, but I have not done this often enough to say that this is a perfectly reliable way to carry on.
The frame (with both wheels and saddle out) will pack down quite small;
note that the rear mech is (unlike in rinko) well tucked away, and is unlikely to be damaged in transit.
Not necessarily the answer to your problem or indeed the answer to your question, but the machine I have created, unlike a PFB, rides much like a normal bike, even if it doesn't quite look like one.
cheers
Anything that isn't one of those is likely to be much better suited to 'going touring by bike' i.e. where you might travel quite a long way by train, tour round for a few days, and then take another train back again. Then spending 15 minutes packing up the bike (be it rinko or S&S or whatever) isn't such a big deal.
S&S couplings can allow bikes (with the forks in still, or tandems) to be carried on airlines easily/at all, or without an outsize luggage charge, if they have constraints on luggage size etc.
An issue that many people have is that PFBs are not (conventionally speaking) particularly good bikes to ride. In my dreams I go to somewhere exotic and unusual, and ride my most favourite bike there. For me, doing that on a PFB isn't the same thing at all.
As a compromise I have built a kind of touring bike by starting with a Rudge (Montague) biframe, which in standard condition looks like this
and (front wheel out) folds like this
in just a few seconds.
Mine uses the smaller size frame (the pictures are of a large frame version) and I have fitted it with dropped bars, SPDs, friction shifters mounted under the stem nosebolt, a deore 3x8 speed transmission, and uses 1.25" slick tyres. Mounted on 559 rims, the skinny tyres mean the wheels are appreciably smaller than 26"; the actual wheel diameter is close to 24-1/2" .
Obviously my contraption goes in the back of a car very easily, but is not (officially anyway) quite small enough to qualify as a folding bike on all railways or buses. In theory once wrapped (in a bin liner or similar) it would qualify as 'outsize luggage' and be carried on trains and buses despite being a bicycle, but I have not done this often enough to say that this is a perfectly reliable way to carry on.
The frame (with both wheels and saddle out) will pack down quite small;
note that the rear mech is (unlike in rinko) well tucked away, and is unlikely to be damaged in transit.
Not necessarily the answer to your problem or indeed the answer to your question, but the machine I have created, unlike a PFB, rides much like a normal bike, even if it doesn't quite look like one.
cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: S&S coupled frames and bikes
cycle tramp wrote:My last 'new bicycle' used a frame with s&s couplings... and whilst i found that they allowed me to split the bike in two pieces, they were quite large pieces..
..in order to attempt to get the rest of the bike down to something like 26" wide pieces, i then had to take off the pedals, rear wheel, front wheel, front mudguard, handle bars, rack and rear mudguard. Thats rather alot of bits to carry, especially if i had a full set of panniers & tent...
..and whilst the parts assembles into a 26 inch tourer, it did take me over half an hour to build it back up with working brakes & gears.
Needless to say the frame is hanging from the shed wall.. and i rather wished that i had used the money to buy a birdy folding bike..
However... now that i've purchased the frame, it would be rather a waste if i didn"t find an easier way of turning the frame into a more convient collapsable bicycle.
1/2hr is not bad if you're taking the bike abroad like ona plane/long distance train/etc. if that saves you from oversize baggage is a good solution.
For the commuting, yes the Birdy rides well but it's such a cumbersome package that after a week I'd just leave it folded in the garage
In a nutshell: if you are in need of a folding bike for daily/frequent use and it's anything under 10 miles just get a Brompton and live happy!
I certainly won't spend money in a separable frame for daily use and thinking I could carry it on a bus/local train at peak time, nah not happening. A separable bike would totally make sense if I had a small car or traveling abroad more or less frequently.
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
Re: S&S coupled frames and bikes
Can you/does anyone put double couplers in so the top tub & down tube can be removed completely (& yes I realise it will be even more expensive)? The reason I ask is the separable version of the Circe Helios (although it doesn't use S&S couplings) comes apart by removing the whole of the rear top tube & bottom tube. I did meet an American couple visiting Yorkshire when the Tour de France started there & they had an S&S coupled (carbon fibre) tandem but I can't remember how many parts/joints it had.
(link)
(link)
Former member of the Cult of the Polystyrene Head Carbuncle.
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notlobgp14
- Posts: 127
- Joined: 25 Jun 2009, 9:33am
- Location: Leyland Lancashire
Re: S&S coupled frames and bikes
RickH wrote:Can you/does anyone put double couplers in so the top tub & down tube can be removed completely (& yes I realise it will be even more expensive)? The reason I ask is the separable version of the Circe Helios (although it doesn't use S&S couplings) comes apart by removing the whole of the rear top tube & bottom tube. I did meet an American couple visiting Yorkshire when the Tour de France started there & they had an S&S coupled (carbon fibre) tandem but I can't remember how many parts/joints it had.
(link)
Yes. Orbit are making an Open Framed design, made in Leeds by Bob Jackson. We've ridden with a couple who bought the second one to be made, although they weren't on it that day. They bought it to take overseas easily.
A couple of blogs to look at:-
http://canddridelejog.blogspot.co.uk/
http://seagessilent.blogspot.co.uk/
http://canddridelejog.blogspot.co.uk/
http://seagessilent.blogspot.co.uk/
Re: S&S coupled frames and bikes
cycle tramp wrote:My last 'new bicycle' used a frame with s&s couplings... and whilst i found that they allowed me to split the bike in two pieces, they were quite large pieces..
..in order to attempt to get the rest of the bike down to something like 26" wide pieces, i then had to take off the pedals, rear wheel, front wheel, front mudguard, handle bars, rack and rear mudguard. Thats rather alot of bits to carry, especially if i had a full set of panniers & tent...
..and whilst the parts assembles into a 26 inch tourer, it did take me over half an hour to build it back up with working brakes & gears.
Needless to say the frame is hanging from the shed wall.. and i rather wished that i had used the money to buy a birdy folding bike..
However... now that i've purchased the frame, it would be rather a waste if i didn"t find an easier way of turning the frame into a more convient collapsable bicycle.
Hey Cycle Tramp,
If your S&S bike is still hanging in your shed, I might be interested in giving it a new and loving home. Can you tell me the make and size and give me any other information?
Cheers!
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cycle tramp
- Posts: 3572
- Joined: 5 Aug 2009, 7:22pm
Re: S&S coupled frames and bikes
coufeyrac wrote:cycle tramp wrote:My last 'new bicycle' used a frame with s&s couplings... and whilst i found that they allowed me to split the bike in two pieces, they were quite large pieces..
..in order to attempt to get the rest of the bike down to something like 26" wide pieces, i then had to take off the pedals, rear wheel, front wheel, front mudguard, handle bars, rack and rear mudguard. Thats rather alot of bits to carry, especially if i had a full set of panniers & tent...
..and whilst the parts assembles into a 26 inch tourer, it did take me over half an hour to build it back up with working brakes & gears.
Needless to say the frame is hanging from the shed wall.. and i rather wished that i had used the money to buy a birdy folding bike..
However... now that i've purchased the frame, it would be rather a waste if i didn"t find an easier way of turning the frame into a more convient collapsable bicycle.
Hey Cycle Tramp,
If your S&S bike is still hanging in your shed, I might be interested in giving it a new and loving home. Can you tell me the make and size and give me any other information?
Cheers!
Thanks for your interest, i won't say i'm not tempted.. Especially as any funds generated might be useful to purchase a bike friday llama frame or a xtoor swift folder frame..
..but seriously you'd hate it. Its currently painted tonka yellow and the paint chips as soon as you look at it. The frame has vertical drop outs, but because it was built for a hub gear only, there's no derailleur mounting point. The frame is also quite tall, whilst at the same time being very short.