TRP Spyre Vs Avid BB7 mechanical disc brakes

[ehelifecycle]

Hi All

Who has used both and can say which is best for a touring bicycle?

I can get "TRP Spyre Alloy Mechanical Disc Brake calipers Front & Rear Pair with 160mm Rotor with Adapter Screws" £57.50 delivered.

or

BB7 disc brake clipers with HS1 disc rotors mtb (it states mountain bike I assume this doesn't matter) £45.84


Also looking to use with 105 STI triple shifters?

Any advice before buying would be great.

[ehelifecycle]

or would anyone recommend another make?

[Gattonero]

They're both reliable, on the long-term the BB7 may be better due to the bigger balls that actuate the brake (less prone to rust and pitting).
As far as brake pads, the Spyre does use a Shimano pattern so it's easy to find them everywhere.
The two brands have pad-contact adjustment for both sides of the caliper (though the BB7 has the Lh side only moving), the Sprye requires a suitable 3mm allen key while the BB7 requires a Torx25 for the inside adjustment (the dial often is very stiff to move by hand).
One downside of the Spyre is that washer that fix the brake wire: it is serrated so it often frays the wire
As far as pull ratio, even considering the differences between manufacturers of brake levers, they both work well. What type of Shimano 105 are you going to use? IIRC the 5603 were not "New Super-SLR"

[ehelifecycle]

They're both reliable, on the long-term the BB7 may be better due to the bigger balls that actuate the brake (less prone to rust and pitting).
As far as brake pads, the Spyre does use a Shimano pattern so it's easy to find them everywhere.
The two brands have pad-contact adjustment for both sides of the caliper (though the BB7 has the Lh side only moving), the Sprye requires a suitable 3mm allen key while the BB7 requires a Torx25 for the inside adjustment (the dial often is very stiff to move by hand).
One downside of the Spyre is that washer that fix the brake wire: it is serrated so it often frays the wire
As far as pull ratio, even considering the differences between manufacturers of brake levers, they both work well. What type of Shimano 105 are you going to use?

thanks, I'm hoping to use Shimano 105 9-speed STI Shifters: ST-5500 Triple/Double

I like the idea of (TRP) both pads moving towards the disc when braking.

[Gattonero]

To be fair, the BB7 give pretty good power even with one piston moving. Most is done by a good mating with the brake lever.

[Shuggie]

BB7 work well with 105 STIs, both double and triple 10 speed IME. NB, make sure you get the road version, not the MTB ones.

[dragonrider]

I was a bit wary of the BB7 with only one pad moving in, but having now used BB7s on both a tandem and a solo I found the BB7 excellent. So don’t let that worry you and it shouldn’t need to be a factor in your choice. Sorry no experience of the Spyre. The Avid BB7 has been around a very long time so it is thoroughly proven.

[Bez]

Have used multiple copies of both for years. My thoughts:

- They're both very good and the things that differentiate them are minor. If you get one and are for some reason disappointed, don't curse yourself for not buying the other.
- Don't get hung up on the single vs double piston thing. It seems like it should be a big deal, and even if it doesn't then a single piston still seems a bit "wrong", but in practice it makes no difference.
- The Spyre caliper extends quite far inboard (ie towards the wheel). In some cases this can put it very close to, or even marginally into, the spokes. In one case I've had to space the rotor out with a couple of thin washers under each bolt (I'm sure similar would be possible with Centerlock). This in turn put the caliper mount at the limit of its lateral adjustability. It's fine, but there's no leeway on that particular bike.
- The Spyre adjustment bolts on each piston are extremely sensitive: a few degrees can make the difference between a perfect setup and a gentle but irritating fuf-fuf-fuf.
- The Spyre does, however, have a barrel adjuster which means you needn't adjust the pistons to take up cable slack (at least for most of the range of wear).
- My opinion is that the Avids feel a little harder and the Spyres a little softer, but if that's accurate then it's marginal, and both have adequate power.
- The inboard caliper adjuster on the Avids (for the fixed piston) is indeed often a little firm. You don't need to adjust it often but it can be awkward; there's a bit of a knack. I've never yet needed to use a tool on one, though.
- That said, the inboard adjuster on the Spyres can be a pain to get a 3mm allen key into, because you have to navigate the spokes. And most multitools aren't going there at all.
- The cable entry angle on the brakes differs: the Spyre points slightly more towards the frame which can give you a bit of a tight cable entry on some bikes (but it's not an issue on most).
- When setting either up, you need to ensure there's no slack in the cable, which means holding the sprung arm slightly when doing up the anchor bolt. (Note that the Avid instructions disadvise this, but I'd disagree.) Without this you'll have rattly levers and excessive pull before engagement. To be honest, there's a knack to setting both up.
- All disc brakes are sensitive to rotor trueness and neither of these are an exception (a big adjustable spanner and a gentle touch are your friends here).

Overall, I'd say that the Spyre has the edge on paper: it has dual pistons and the barrel adjuster, and I think it looks nicer. But in terms of living with them I would give the nod to the Avids: they're just a little less fussy IME. But, like I say, they're both good brakes, I happily use both and I have no desire to convert any of my sets to the other.

[Brucey]

not impressed with the insides of spyke/spyre brakes; there are a pair of thrust bearings which have really tiny ball bearings in them. These bearings are not well greased, not well shielded, so corrode and make the brake action rough. Just try swinging the brake arm (with the wheel or the pads out) on a few well-used brakes if you want to see what I mean. I have not found a set that wasn't somewhat rough yet. The calipers are a PITA to strip down and service, and there is basically nothing you can do if the thrust bearing races are pitted, except to try and stop it from getting worse (some chance). The pad adjusting screws on Spyres work loose too; they just have a smear of threadlock on them which does not persist. The last set of Spyres I looked at were (of course) rather rough in action and (presumably because the pad adjustment screws had moved by themselves) pushed the disc to one side far more than a BB7 would....

BB7s are not perfect either but they can more easily be overhauled and on balance the mechanism is simpler and more robust. They work about the same (if you compare the 'road' versions); the idea that two pistons moving is noticeably better than one is not borne out in practice.

Spyres have one signficant advantage which is that the caliper protrudes less far to the left. This can make it easier to fit mudguards, racks etc. esp at the rear. On the flip side the calipers are more likely to touch the spokes, too.

IIRC the very latest version of the spyre has a grub screw to anchor the cable. Another step backwards....

cheers

[hamish]

I have both...

They are on very different bikes and both are used in rough conditions. Both have worked well and the Spyres have coped with three years of winter commuting along a sandy seafront and then a canal tow path in one of the wettest cities in the UK.

If I was building a new bike I would go for the BB7s. They are simpler, easier to adjust, give more spoke clearance and I believe Brucy's warnings about their potential shortcomings.

[Cosmicbike]

I've not used the TRP's, but have 8500 miles on my BB7 Roads on the commuter. Very few issues, the occasional inner pad adjustment is all I've done. As others have said, make sure you get the road version if using with 105 'brifters' as the pull ratio differs from the MTB ones.

[climo]

On my trike I can never quite get the BB7's to brake straight. I guess the pad spacing is just a tad different left to right plus the cable tension is different.
Would the dual piston Spyre work better? It strikes me that to set up both pads at the same distance from the disc is easier than the BB7's two different gaps. Two chances of misadjustment instead of four.

[Brucey]

On my trike I can never quite get the BB7's to brake straight. I guess the pad spacing is just a tad different left to right plus the cable tension is different.
Would the dual piston Spyre work better? It strikes me that to set up both pads at the same distance from the disc is easier than the BB7's two different gaps. Two chances of misadjustment instead of four.

Hmm not sure that logic holds water. Especially bearing in mind that the spyre pad adjusters (of which you would still have four to fiddle with BTW) tend to start moving around under their own steam. There are of course many reasons why a pair of brakes (working off one lever?) might not be balanced, for example

1) - the cable adjustments are different each side
2) - the brake action is not linear with cable movement, i.e. the arm has to make the same angle in each caliper when the brake comes on in order for the brakes to stay balanced for more than five minutes
3) the cable lengths are not equal to each caliper
4) the cable runs to each caliper have a different number of bends in them (or the cable prep is not similar) and thus the runs are differently squashy
5) the cable runs are not similarly lubricated so there is a different force transmitted to each caliper (this can easily make the brakes go out of balance by several tens of percent)
6) one of the brakes is routinely subject to a different amount of dirt/contamination, so won't work (or wear) identically to the other one. For example on a trike this can happen if one wheel routinely runs in a mucky gutter and the other one does not.

Some of these things can be made better by using a single-lever brake setup that uses a pulley system to balance the tensions in both cables. But this does not solve all the possible problems. Hydraulic brake pairs on a single circuit take away a lot of the cable variables, but add other maintenance troubles.

IMHO the type of caliper is likely to be one of the least important things in determining whether you have a good brake balance or not, and there are likely to be many other things that ought to benefit from your attention first. If the cabling has not been prepared and maintained meticulously (to a far higher standard than is required for a single brake), any pair of cable operated brakes will not be well balanced.

cheers

[Bez]

If this is a question of bite point rather than consistent power once applied:

The one difference between the brakes which I believe might allow you to get that balance spot on is that the Spyre allows infinite trimming of the pads via the piston adjusters whereas the Avid adjusters are stepped. Though note my earlier point that the Spyres are really sensitive, so it may be a mildly frustrating process. But in theory I guess you have a better shot at getting them biting precisely together. How well that translates to reality may be another matter.

If it's a question of consistent power then I can't see that changing calipers would (unless by luck) make any difference.

[climo]

On my trike I can never quite get the BB7's to brake straight. I guess the pad spacing is just a tad different left to right plus the cable tension is different.
Would the dual piston Spyre work better? It strikes me that to set up both pads at the same distance from the disc is easier than the BB7's two different gaps. Two chances of misadjustment instead of four.

Hmm not sure that logic holds water. Especially bearing in mind that the spyre pad adjusters (of which you would still have four to fiddle with BTW) tend to start moving around under their own steam. There are of course many reasons why a pair of brakes (working off one lever?) might not be balanced, for example

trimmed for brevity

Thanks for the definitive answer as usual Brucey.
I just love this forum!