Replacing rivets in Brooks Saddle

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steady eddy
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Joined: 1 May 2008, 11:02am
Location: Norfolk

Replacing rivets in Brooks Saddle

Post by steady eddy »

The rivets on my B17 are not flush with the leather and have seen off one pair of winter tights already. I cant move the saddle any further back to stop this and I already have a layback set post.
Looking in Condor Cycles a couple of weeks ago I see that on the more expensive Brooks saddles copper rivets are used, which are peened down flush with the leather. I have tried flattening down the Nickel rivets but they are too hard. Has anybody replaced the Nickel rivets with Copper on their saddles and if so how did you get on? I see the diameters are different but I can easily drill the holes out.
The alternative seems to be a Giles Berthaud saddle but they are very expensive.
Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Replacing rivets in Brooks Saddle

Post by Brucey »

The standard rivets on a B17 are steel, with a plated finish. Replacing the rivets with superior quality copper rivets is not a very difficult job to do, if you have basic workshops skills.

Some reading;

https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=62103&p=529800&hilit=copper+rivets#p529800

https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=69973&hilit=copper+rivets

BTW I can supply suitable rivets at a reasonable cost.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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robgul
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Re: Replacing rivets in Brooks Saddle

Post by robgul »

I would suggest that you are on a hiding to nothing trying to replace the rivets - ask Brooks (they're at Smwthwick) as I'm pretty sure they offer a repair service at reasonable cost. That said I think they'd be unlikely to replace the old rivets with copper. They have been helpful to me in the past with some saddle issues.

Rob
E2E http://www.cycle-endtoend.org.uk
HoECC http://www.heartofenglandcyclingclub.org.uk
Cytech accredited mechanic . . . and woodworker
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Vetus Ossa
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Re: Replacing rivets in Brooks Saddle

Post by Vetus Ossa »

If you want to have a go yourself, you may find this youtube video interesting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZtRrxsxxao
Beauty will save the world.
wjhall
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Joined: 1 Sep 2014, 8:46am

Re: Replacing rivets in Brooks Saddle

Post by wjhall »

I used copper rivets in place of steel when putting a B17 on a new frame a few years ago. This was because the holes had worn larger over the years, so I felt the extra diameter of the copper cap essential. Some of the steel rivets had fallen out, which did not seem to be a problem, I assume because your bottom presses the leather onto the frame.

Looking at a couple of Brooks promotional videos, it seemed that the steel rivets were fitted by a single press blow onto a tool pushed up from below, so I attempted to reproduce this and did not explicitly attempt to peen the copper rivet heads, athough the copper rivet hammering process shown in one of the videos on their site could be intepreted as peening.

Given the need to make a special tool, use of a vice, work bench, and the hours spent for something that must be 15 minutes work for a professional doing it with the correct tools and procedures I suspect that for a complete replacement it is worth obtaining a quote from Brooks. For a few rivets possibly not. A further hiccough was that I thought that the nose rivets were still good, but a few months after the doing the back they popped, and I had to replace them. The main difficulty then being inserting the bolt, without the appropriate tensioning press. I finally used a standard bolt and nut to allow tensioning.
Brucey
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Re: Replacing rivets in Brooks Saddle

Post by Brucey »

FWIW the standard brooks rivets are compromised by the roundness of the holes in the metalwork, especially the cantle plate. The plate is blanked when flat (leaving round holes) and then pressed to shape. The pressing deforms the holes so that Brooks have to use rivets with a ~1/16" smaller shank than the original size of the holes. It is done this way to save a few pennies.

If you use rivets with a 1/4" shank they can be made a snug fit in the metalwork, because the holes are re-drilled to suit.

With any large-headed rivet, you do need to form (hammer) the top of the rivet extensively to have it lie flush with the leather.

The threads I Iinked to earlier explain how to fit new rivets.

cheers
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531colin
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Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Replacing rivets in Brooks Saddle

Post by 531colin »

alexnharvey
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:39am

Re: Replacing rivets in Brooks Saddle

Post by alexnharvey »

It's not too hard if the leather is in good condition. Getting good support to the rear of the rivet to allow peening can be the most difficult bit particularly at the nose.
mercalia
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Location: london South

Re: Replacing rivets in Brooks Saddle

Post by mercalia »

531colin wrote:Or you can just use M6 countersunk headed bolts.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/52358536@N06/9487473565/in/album-72157624571269648/


shame that Brookes dont use them in the first place? when I look at the rivits on my brrokes they aint very pretty underneath with broken and rough edges, amateurish is the word that comes to mind...
Woodtourer
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Joined: 23 Jan 2018, 1:51pm

Re: Replacing rivets in Brooks Saddle

Post by Woodtourer »

Bruce,
Hello from across the pond!
I would like to redo my B17 with the copper rivets but have a question. The you tube video was helpful but was wondering about the nose rivets. Especially the one on the sides. Is a special "anvil" needed to get in there?
Thanks!
Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Replacing rivets in Brooks Saddle

Post by Brucey »

you could make a cranked anvil and punch I suppose but the easiest way I have found is to flare the nosepiece slightly so that you can get in to the side rivets with straight tools. Just squeeze the nosepiece back into shape afterwards. This is (I think) described in one of the earlier linked posts.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
steady eddy
Posts: 676
Joined: 1 May 2008, 11:02am
Location: Norfolk

Re: Replacing rivets in Brooks Saddle

Post by steady eddy »

Just a photo of the finished job. I haven't done the rivets in the nose but might do when I have a spare moment.A lttle bit of dressing with a small file has helped get then nice and smooth.
Thanks for the help Brucey - It seems to have solved the problem
Attachments
Saddle Repair.JPG
Brucey
Posts: 44513
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Replacing rivets in Brooks Saddle

Post by Brucey »

that looks to be a nice job!

glad it worked out OK

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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