Dishing/centring/alignment tools for building wheels – recommendations?

[Samuel D]

I don't have the skills to make my own tools (out of any material) so tools like this are Godsends.

Nor do I. I don’t have the skills, the tools, the workspace (city flat), or even access to reasonably priced raw materials. People who live in the countryside with a shed full of junk are in a different position. For me to build a dishing tool would require several overpriced errands, the purchase of a wood saw, etc., and the result would leave so much to be desired that I think it wouldn’t be worth the bother. The intention is to get something slicker than a tripod and two tables.

All the same, I’d rather not spend more than I have to on tools, although I intend to keep them for decades. The WAG-4 is an option although I don’t much like the look of the device that contacts the lock-nut. The VAR tool has a little cup that goes over the axle. Reviews for the modern VAR tool are hard to come by. I’m concerned the nylon feet might have or develop play on the beam.

[Phileas]

I've never used a dishing tool. I have the cheap one supplied with the Minoura jig but it's a faff to use.

It seemed obvious to reverse the wheel in the jig to check dish and I've never suffered from "gross errors" with this method and clearly neither have the other experienced builders who do the same.

[andrew_s]

There seems to be disagreement on how much precision is needed here. Maybe not much is required, I’m starting to think, although with 11-speed rear wheels reasonable precision becomes necessary merely for wheel strength.

I'd take the view that if you can't detect it in the ridden bike, a dishing error is of no great import, so long as it's towards the less dished side.
At one time, when I used a bike with an old style hook for the canti straddle cable that I could set off-centre, I used to deliberately build the rear wheel with the rim offset 3 or 4 mm to the non-drive side, in the interests of a stronger wheel. In fact, now I'm on disc brakes, I might start doing so again, if I remember when I eventually need a new wheel.

As for a dishing stick, I use the same Minoura one as @gaz, also obtained as a kit with the wheel jig and a spoke key that went straight in the bin.
As with the wheel jig, it's more about convenience than any real need - you can build perfectly well in the bike frame and checking dish by reversing the wheel. The most accurate wheel I ever built was done that way (MA2 on XT, within 0.1 mm lateral runout, 0.2 radial, and 0.3 dish, except at the pinned, unwelded rim joint).

[Des49]

I don't have the skills to make my own tools (out of any material) so tools like this are Godsends.

Nor do I. I don’t have the skills, the tools, the workspace (city flat), or even access to reasonably priced raw materials. People who live in the countryside with a shed full of junk are in a different position. For me to build a dishing tool would require several overpriced errands, the purchase of a wood saw, etc., and the result would leave so much to be desired that I think it wouldn’t be worth the bother. The intention is to get something slicker than a tripod and two tables.

All the same, I’d rather not spend more than I have to on tools, although I intend to keep them for decades. The WAG-4 is an option although I don’t much like the look of the device that contacts the lock-nut. The VAR tool has a little cup that goes over the axle. Reviews for the modern VAR tool are hard to come by. I’m concerned the nylon feet might have or develop play on the beam.

All you need is a knife, ruler and some cardboard. I made up a simple cardboard one after many years of not bothering, just using the wheel jig and reversing the wheel.
The cardboard affair was meant as a try and see effort as suggested in Roger Musson's guide. With accurate cutting and use of a hot glue gun it has given excellent usage, still have it hanging up even though it was a template for a more long lasting mdf version. It is capable of showing up very small differences in dish and to me is quicker than using the jig. You need a nice solid jig to reverse the wheel in accurately, some of the cheaper ones are a bit sloppy for this in my experience. Again my current jig is a mdf one built largely to Roger Musson's suggestions.

[Mick F]

How accurate do you need the dishing to be?

[Des49]

How accurate do you need the dishing to be?

You are quite right to ask this. I would think in practice being too accurate isn't necessary, though if using different wheels in the same bike often then as accurate as possible makes brake block alignment easier.

When I build a wheel from scratch then I do get the alignment within half a mm or less, is this needed, I don't think so, just satisfying to achieve.

[Suffolker]

I have a Cyclus one, which is all cast metal, that I got secondhand for peanuts years ago. It's a beautifully made tool, but I see it now sells at about £130 so I wouldn't buy a replacement at that price. Mine gets a quite a lot of use, although it's not much good for working on a wheel with the tyre on.

[horizon]

[quote="- you can build perfectly well in the bike frame and checking dish by reversing the wheel.

This is good to know, especially say with faced with a problem on tour. But both tools (jig and WAG) are nice incentives especially where space is limited and you don't want the bike indoors.

Park Tools' raison d'etre is to develop tools, sometimes where really none were needed so one must be a little sceptical.

[pwa]

How accurate do you need the dishing to be?

You are quite right to ask this. I would think in practice being too accurate isn't necessary, though if using different wheels in the same bike often then as accurate as possible makes brake block alignment easier.

When I build a wheel from scratch then I do get the alignment within half a mm or less, is this needed, I don't think so, just satisfying to achieve.

In the past I have dished a wheel to within 1mm of perfect, then found that the canti brakes had a problem with one arm that made them impossible to centre perfectly, so I redished the wheel a smidge to avoid brake rub. And all was well. When I got new cantis I corrected it back. So if the brakes work fine it is unlikely that a small inaccuracy with dishing will spoil your day.

[Mick F]

That's the way I see it.
Get it dished correctly enough so it works.

As for swapping wheels, calliper brakes are adjustable, so perfection isn't necessary.

[Brucey]

to construct the tool I described upthread needs only that you go to a hardware shop and buy a single length of timber and three screws. They will cut it to length. You only need to add three holes well enough to start the screws into; a bradawl will do for this, even the one on a Swiss army knife. Even the saw on a Swiss army knife will do for cutting the timber to length come to that.

An alternative design would be easy enough too. For example you could use two flat wooden coathangers to create a frame with a span of 620mm. The wooden parts could be bolted or clamped together (eg using a small G clamp or small bolts), and a suitable piece of metal (e.g. a flat adjustable bracket for mounting a rack) used to make an adjustable pointer (scrounge from the LBS next time you are in there). Total cost would be pennies and again no special tools are required to construct it.

Mater artium necessitas and all that....

cheers

[Abradable Chin]

Out of curiosity, apart from it being bad form, is there any down side in safety or handling to a bike with an offset back wheel?

I'm sure I've ridden around with a rear wheel that was massively off-centre. It still cleared the frame, and I adjusted the brake shoes appropriately. If I'd had disc brakes, no adjustment would have been needed. Presumably, my body was adjusting its position, or I was tilting the bike slightly whilst riding, but I didn't notice it.

[Brucey]

between unintentional variations in dish and dodgy frame alignments, I'd argue that most bikes don't track perfectly true. I don't think it does much harm if the rear wheel is a bit out of track; after all it is probably no worse (steering-wise) than (say) riding with one pannier and this is usually done without a second thought.

Front end misalignments I'd estimate to be at least x2 or x3 more important than rear end misalignments.

cheers

[interestedcp]

What do you use and would you buy it again?

I use an old Park Tool one (WAG-3), somewhat similar to their present WAG-5. It works for me.

Would I buy the same again? Perhaps, if the price was right. Since I only deal with my own wheels, I don't care whether such a rarely used tool works with the tyre on. I want easy-to-use, light and cheap*. These days there are lots of DIY solutions, and I would probably look at them before buying anything. It is my impression that even cheap and DIY tools easily can have the required precision for the job.

*Actually I am a sucker for nice tools; I bought a Campagnolo 10spd chain whip that is simply gorgeous to look at and feels very nice to use. It was bought on a firesale, so it was heavily discounted, but still 2-3 times as expensive as my cheap chain whip, and have no better functionality.
The Campagnolo dishing tool was also on sale that time, and I regret somewhat I didn't buy it every time I see it on-line or see it mentioned like in this thread, even though it must be more than 10 years ago.
So while a cheap dishing tool may work very well for hobbyist wheel builders, I do understand the desire for well made tools from VAR, Hozan, Cyclus Tools, Campagnolo etc.

I use a dishing tool because it makes my wheel building easier, not at least because I (re)build wheels on Campagnolo hubs and now 11spd Shimano hubs; the dishing is rather steep with such hubs, so every 0.5mm correct dishing helps in getting better tensioning and tensioning balance.

[iow]

home-made tool for me...