Ksyrium wheels

[Gattonero]

IIRC for reasons best known to themselves, Mavic made their 10s freehub bodies slightly longer than shimano did. This can have the effect of allowing 11s road cassettes to fit on Mavic 10s freehubs without trouble, and 10s shimano cassettes usually need a spacer on Mavic 10s bodies, much as they do when they are fitted to 11s shimano bodies.

cheers

Is actually pretty easy to understand: the same hub will take both Campagnolo and Shimano freehubs, so is engineered on the longest of the two (Campagnolo).

That argument is not terribly convincing to me, in that lots of other hubs can accept campag or shimano freehub bodies and none of them had a longer shimano pattern spline in 10s days.

Yes, but their freehub design is not like Mavic FTS-L. This does rely on a bushing and a cartridge bearing at the end of the axle, so there isn't much room to revise the design.
Besides, what was wrong in making a hub that was already future-proof? I call it gravy. When people had to bin their Shimano wheels for moving to 11speed, Mavic users were smiling

I may have it wrong but IIRC at one time Mavic made their own 10s cassettes which had a shimano spline but were a compromise between the width of a campag 10s cassette and a shimano 10s cassette (handy for neutral service?); if so that would explain why the freehub body was longer than shimano 10s.

cheers

That was donkeys ago, and a different freehub design.

[Gattonero]

Btw, I think you meant the 571 (IIRC) hub with the "face-type" ratchet? My take is that they never made a Campagnolo freehub for it because of the design with the needle-bearing inside the freehub, perhaps it won't leave enough room for the deeper Campagnolo spline pattern? Or that was earlier, been mid-90s?

[Brucey]

That was donkeys ago, and a different freehub design.

Btw, I think you meant the 571 (IIRC) hub with the "face-type" ratchet? My take is that they never made a Campagnolo freehub for it because of the design with the needle-bearing inside the freehub, perhaps it won't leave enough room for the deeper Campagnolo spline pattern? Or that was earlier, been mid-90s?

dunno, it is all a bit lost in the mists of time, isn't it?

I wonder if they made their 'long' 10s freehub body to accept their older length 10s cassette? Not so much future-proof (how could they have known, exactly?) as retro-compatible with older Mavic kit?

cheers

[Gattonero]

Uhm, the old Mavic cassettes had two iterations, AFAIK the first one used sprockets screwed (!) in the freehub body (somewhere I have the tool to hold the freehub) and the last one used "can't remember how many" round splines.
Btw, that freehub with face-ratchet was quite a failure.

[Brucey]

wasn't there a Mavic 10s cassette that used the shimano spline but wouldn't fit a shimano freehub body because it was wider? Possibly fitted to another model of hub that was used in the very first Ksyriums with aluminium spokes? It is a long time ago now, and it was kit that I wasn't right keen on at the time, so I may have not remembered it rightly.

edit; would it have been the Mavic M10 cassette that I'm thinking of? This had the shimano spline, and was originally designed to be convertible between 9s and 10s, so may have used slightly thicker sprockets than shimano 10s, and thus built up a touch wider.

cheers

[Gattonero]

Will dig in the picture folders, as far as I remember before there was only the Helium that would use a fairly standard HG freehub for 9/0sp.
I do remember the rare Titanium FTS-L freehub, but not an alluminium one. Who knows what happened on French soil, must be as much as what happened with Campagnolo

[Brucey]

this chart from 2004

http://www.tech.mavic.com/uk/sources/Produits/ROUTE/Composants/M10Cassette/Compatibilite.pdf

throws a little more light on things. At that time you could have either a campag freehub body (ED10) or a shimano splined freehub body (M10) to fit Mavic wheels.

The M10 body could be used with a shimano 8/9/10s cassette, provided M40417 (1.9mm thickness) spacer was used behind the cassette. However the M10 body would also accept Mavic's own M10 cassette which could be spaced to one of four different official configurations, by using different different spacers between the sprockets

- 10s shimano spacing (again with M40417)
- 8s campag spacing
- 9s campag spacing
-10s campag spacing

Thus Mavic's plan was always to support campag sprocket spacing on a shimano -splined freehub body, and that is why the freehub body was about 1.9mm longer than a shimano 8/9/10s freehub body. This is very close to the length increase in a shimano 11s freehub body (IIRC they use a ~1.85mm spacer behind a 10s cassette), so such freehub bodies accept an 11s shimano cassette without trouble.

Presumably the M10 sprockets were close to the shimano 10s thickness of 1.6mm.
This would make the spacers approximately
~2.35mm ( S10 grey M40409), 3.4mm (C8 alu M40182 ) , 2.95mm (C9 yellow M40181) , 2.52mm (C10 black M40573) respectively, for each of the four configurations.

The M10 cassette looked like this

with grey (S10 M40409) spacers.

cheers

[Gattonero]

Well, the "M10" freehub body of "FTS-L" type has always been known as the "Shimano HG" body, it was used sing ealry 2000 and still used today.
The fact that they use the M40417 spacer is proof. The chart shows mostly use of the original spacers.

The image of that Mavic (?) cassette reminded me right away of the Marchisio sprockets:

I think they combined the things together, a hub design that will take Campag or Shimano freehub PLUS a "multi-space" casette.

[Brucey]

the sprockets are a little bit like Marchisio ones but the spokes lean the other way?



This is a mavic cassette with the HG spline and spaced (using yellow spacers) to C9 configuration.



cheers

[philvantwo]

Well the 11 speed shimano 105 cassette arrived today, good news it fits on alright so that's a relief!
Thanks for all the replies!

[gxaustin]

A couple of weeks ago I fitted an 11 speed Ultegra cassette on a c2,000 Mavic Cosmos wheel for my retro bike.

[philvantwo]

11 speed cassette on a retro bike?