Another Campagnolo/Shimano mix question

[foxyrider]

I'm having big issues with the freehub bearings in my Kinesis CX rear wheel, latest have lasted under 500km! As I run Campag sourcing a suitable replacement wheel at short notice (I need something for a mini tour next week!) is nigh on impossible.

However I have a brand new Shimano splined wheel sitting doing nothing and I seem to recall a vague reference that my 11 speed shifters will work on a 10 speed Shimano cassette.

Before I go buying a cassette can anyone confirm this is the case?

Shifters are Athena 11 speed carbon triple with a Record Ti mid rear mech if that makes any difference.

Cheers

[cycleruk]

According to the figures there is a 0.1mm difference in sprocket pitch between Shimano 10 and Campag' 11 speed.
By the time you have gone from one end of the cassette to the other then 9 clicks (10 speed) there will be at most 0.9mm error.
So with good setting up there should be no problem.
https://www.cyclinguk.org/cyclists-libr ... s/shimergo

The same goes for 11 speed Shimano being also 0.1mm difference to Campag' but then you won't get a Shimano 11 cassette on a Shimano 10 speed freehub.
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Bicycles/ ... Dimensions

[PH]

According to the figures there is a 0.1mm difference in sprocket pitch between Shimano 10 and Campag' 11 speed.
By the time you have gone from one end of the cassette to the other then 9 clicks (10 speed) there will be at most 0.9mm error.
So with good setting up there should be no problem.

Would that mean that by setting it up on a middle sprocket, it would only be out by half that at either end?

[cycleruk]

According to the figures there is a 0.1mm difference in sprocket pitch between Shimano 10 and Campag' 11 speed.
By the time you have gone from one end of the cassette to the other then 9 clicks (10 speed) there will be at most 0.9mm error.
So with good setting up there should be no problem.

Would that mean that by setting it up on a middle sprocket, it would only be out by half that at either end?

In theory Yes!
The top jockey wheel of the rear derailleur has slight sideways play and this allows very slight misalignment of sprockets.
Any chance you can borrow a wheel to satisfy yourself it will work ?
I have run a 10 speed Shimano in place of 10 speed Campag' and that also worked fine even with 0.2mm pitch error.
The only real problem with it was the Campag' mech' was very close to the spokes when on the large sprocket so had to be trimmed carefully.

[foxyrider]

Checking the new wheel earlier it already has a cassette fitted so there's no cost other than time. Thanks for the confirmation. Looks like a job for the morning

Just thought, I might need to change the chain I suppose, will try as is first though.

Will advise how I get on.

[Brucey]

you will also need to adjust the rear mech carefully; if you are running 11s shifters and a 10s cassette, shifting into the spokes is a real possibility....

cheers

[mattsccm]

As 11 speeds are "closer" and you have 11 speed stuff why not shove an 11 speed Shimano cassette on. Despite the comment above they can be made to work by taking about 1 mm off each spline with a file to move the whole lot inward. Got 4 wheels working that now. All fine. Forget which ones are that and which are 11 speed as standard.

[foxyrider]

you will also need to adjust the rear mech carefully; if you are running 11s shifters and a 10s cassette, shifting into the spokes is a real possibility....

cheers

Yep, to be honest it's not been working spot on since a shop service in January anyway - goodness knows what they actually did!

[foxyrider]

As 11 speeds are "closer" and you have 11 speed stuff why not shove an 11 speed Shimano cassette on. Despite the comment above they can be made to work by taking about 1 mm off each spline with a file to move the whole lot inward. Got 4 wheels working that now. All fine. Forget which ones are that and which are 11 speed as standard.

Sounds like a whole lot of work for no real gain - I have a ten speed cassette already on the wheel and it's only intended to be a stop gap until I can get the original sorted out - quick and cheap is for me!

[foxyrider]

Just an update.

I've fitted the Shimano wheel and after running through everything in the workstand decided to make no adjustments before a road test today. It changed to every sprocket with no over/under run at either end, the double shift between gears 5 + 6.

Out on the road shifting was quite sweet and if anything quieter than usual but that might be due to the lack of other noises!

No doubt I could take the time to readjust everything to lose the mid range half change but as it's only meant to be a stop gap measure i'll leave it as is.

The problematic wheel is most certainly suffering freehub bearing failure again, this after just 500 miles. This is the fourth time they've failed, each time it's been a shorter interval - what the heck is going on? The bike hasn't been heavily loaded and not exactly abused in terms of mileage either. Wheel is a Kinesis CX disc with Campy freehub bought September 2014 with a 12-29 11 speed cassette - answers on a postcard!

[Roy A]

[The problematic wheel is most certainly suffering freehub bearing failure again, this after just 500 miles. This is the fourth time they've failed, each time it's been a shorter interval - what the heck is going on? The bike hasn't been heavily loaded and not exactly abused in terms of mileage either. Wheel is a Kinesis CX disc with Campy freehub bought September 2014 with a 12-29 11 speed cassette - answers on a postcard!]

Recently Mercian posted a picture of a Campag freehub on their Instagram page. This shows a lubrication hole closed by a grub screw. Apparently these freehubs require lubrication otherwise the inner bearings tend to fail.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BgqgJc1giwL ... ciancycles

[foxyrider]

[The problematic wheel is most certainly suffering freehub bearing failure again, this after just 500 miles. This is the fourth time they've failed, each time it's been a shorter interval - what the heck is going on? The bike hasn't been heavily loaded and not exactly abused in terms of mileage either. Wheel is a Kinesis CX disc with Campy freehub bought September 2014 with a 12-29 11 speed cassette - answers on a postcard!]

Recently Mercian posted a picture of a Campag freehub on their Instagram page. This shows a lubrication hole closed by a grub screw. Apparently these freehubs require lubrication otherwise the inner bearings tend to fail.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BgqgJc1giwL ... ciancycles

To clarify, this is not a Campagnolo hub or wheel, it is a Kinesis wheel with their in house Campag compatible freehub.

Brand new bearings that haven't seen wet or high load should not be failing like this.

[Brucey]

[The problematic wheel is most certainly suffering freehub bearing failure again, this after just 500 miles. This is the fourth time they've failed, each time it's been a shorter interval - what the heck is going on? The bike hasn't been heavily loaded and not exactly abused in terms of mileage either. Wheel is a Kinesis CX disc with Campy freehub bought September 2014 with a 12-29 11 speed cassette - answers on a postcard!]

it sounds to me that there are several possibilities

1) that the bearings have been damaged during installation
2) that the assembly is not correct
3) that the bearings are rubbish (in sealing or lubrication)

The first thing to check is 2), specifically that the spacer is fitted between the freehub bearings; if this is omitted, or is the wrong length then the bearings will fail quickly and catastrophically.

If the bearings are rusty-looking, suspect 3)

cheers

[slowster]

Recently Mercian posted a picture of a Campag freehub on their Instagram page. This shows a lubrication hole closed by a grub screw. Apparently these freehubs require lubrication otherwise the inner bearings tend to fail.

I have some 2000 era Record hubs with the lubrication hole and cover in the middle of the hub shell, but I was not aware of the existance of a lubrication hole in the freehub (and cannot recall noticing it when I removed the cassette). I do recall that when I injected some Finishline Teflon grease through the hub shell lubrication port, it evidently entered the freehub, because the noise of the freehub dramatically reduced.

I'll make a point of getting the cassette off my hub at some point soon to check the freehub, and if there is a lubrication hole, I now have some Britpart semi-fluid grease (purchased based on various comments on this forum by Brucey and others) which I can use in it.