Gears feel rough

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
reohn2
Posts: 40711
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Gears feel rough

Post by reohn2 »

the snail wrote:Personally I think degreasers etc are a waste of time, and if you end up washing it off with water that doesn't dry out before you re-lube then that will cause early failure. I just wipe the chain with a rag, put a drop of oil on each roller, run the chain round to work the oil in, then wipe the excess off, job done.

The problem with not cleaning a chain is that a dirty chain gets full of road grit that's then ground into the pins beneath rollers and between the side plates accelerating wear rather like grinding paste.
Then when the chain is lubed and wiped some more of the grit and muck sitting on the outside of the chain is carried into the rollers and pins with the new lube.
A properly cleaned and lubed chain lasts longer IME,the only time my chains see water is when it rains,it is then lubed with TF2 aerosol spray lube as soon as I get home before I put the bike away
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pwa
Posts: 13940
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Gears feel rough

Post by pwa »

I seldom degrease chains and tend to settle for wiping, adding the Finish Line wet oil I prefer, then wiping the excess off as it goes around the drivetrain backwards. That new oil comes off with more dirt. If I'm keen I can repeat that a few times, also wiping affected areas of the drivetrain. I end up with a chain that is not too oily, because of all the wiping with kitchen roll, and which is much cleaner than when I started. But it is not as clean as I see on some super clean bikes. But I don't trust super clean chains because I know that to get them that way you have to use a solvent that removes oil (or whatever) from parts of the chain I cannot see, and there is a danger that at the end of the process there may be tiny inaccessible areas left without lube. And that would mean a potential rust or wear problem. For me a bit of dirt left on the chain is a price well worth paying to guarantee that I don't get an underlubed chain. And my chains last well.

If I really want to give a chain a good going over I remove it using the quick link, drop it in a plastic tub and shake it round in white spirits / paint thinner for a minute or two. Then I wipe off as much liquid as I can and hang it up on a hook in my garage to dry. If I can manage it I will leave it there overnight. Then I overlube it and pass it around in my hands to try to work the oil into every part. Then I spend a while wiping off most of the oil so than when I pop it back on the bike I have a chain with a normal amount of lube, not a dripping mess. This is all pretty time consuming so I only tend to do it when I am also giving the rest of the drivetrain a really good clean.

The bottom line is that too little lube, or lube that does not reach all parts of the chain, is the thing that concerns me most. I will even tolerate a bit of dirt to avoid that. And water is the enemy of chains.
Brucey
Posts: 43113
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Gears feel rough

Post by Brucey »

at one time I used a MTB daily to ride ~20 miles a day, about half of which was offroad. My chain got filthy every day, and I cleaned it every day, using a hot pressure wash. It then got sprayed with GT85 and if the chain looked at all dirty after a few times around the cogs (it usually did, with black stuff oozing out of the side plates) it got washed again until there was no dirt left. The GT85 displaced the water, and usually provided enough lubrication for another ten miles in the wet or twenty miles in the dry, the following day. If it was wet the chain got a squirt of something at lunchtime.

Good quality chains treated thusly lasted ~2000 miles, which doesn't seem like that much until you realise that they would last 1/4 of that if they were not cleaned. A cheap chain (without proper hardening) might last half as long as that.

IME MTB chains (offroad, on bikes without full mudguards or a full chainguard) get so dirty, so quickly, that some form of cleaning is necessary. However if you use full mudguards (with a decent length mudflap at the front) and/or ride on the road, the chain gets much less dirty and various other chain maintenance strategies can work OK.

Note that water displacers (GT85 or similar) will only work properly if the water is not contaminated, i.e. the chain needs to be clean, and the water needs to be rinsing water and pretty clean too.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fraz101
Posts: 146
Joined: 15 Feb 2018, 12:47pm

Re: Gears feel rough

Post by Fraz101 »

The 2nd chain has now done 210miles. So far all I've done is thoroughly wipe the chain with a towel once a week and oil it using muc off wet lube after the wipe down. The chain not been cleaned using any solvent or chain bath etc.

I'm pretty sure this chain has had it as well. It felt perfect when fitted however it feels exactly like the first chain now,rough in 3,4,5 but ok in 7th.

Chain is sram pc830....
Samuel D
Posts: 3081
Joined: 8 Mar 2015, 11:05pm
Location: Paris
Contact:

Re: Gears feel rough

Post by Samuel D »

Time to try a Wippermann Connex!
gregoryoftours
Posts: 1573
Joined: 22 May 2011, 7:14pm

Re: Gears feel rough

Post by gregoryoftours »

I'd try kmc x8-93 next, I've found them to last well and good value.
the snail
Posts: 180
Joined: 5 Aug 2011, 3:11pm

Re: Gears feel rough

Post by the snail »

You should measure the wear to determine the amount of wear. Either buy a tool like the park tools one (not totally accurate, but good enough, and quick and easy) or use a ruler and measure from pin to pin over 12 links. A new chain measures exactly 12", when it gets to 12 + 1/8" it's worn out. Make sure the chain is the right length - usually this means that with the gears on largest chainring and largest sprocket the derailleur is at roughly 45deg angle, and with the gears set to small chainring and sprocket the derailleur isn't completely folded up and the cage isn't rubbing on the freewheel. I set the chain length by running the chain around the largest rear cog and largest chainring (not through the derailleur) so that the ends overlap on the chainring find where one end reaches to, round up to nearest link and add link. I always end up removing some links to get it right. With the chain off, I'd have a look at the jockey wheels, make sure they're not too worn, and take them off and clean/lube them (don't mix them up, top and bottom aren't usually interchangeable, and they may have a direction of rotation marked on them). Also, with chain off you could check that the pedals and crank are turning freely without any play/roughness.
Fraz101
Posts: 146
Joined: 15 Feb 2018, 12:47pm

Re: Gears feel rough

Post by Fraz101 »

The chain is 12 1/8”


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Samuel D
Posts: 3081
Joined: 8 Mar 2015, 11:05pm
Location: Paris
Contact:

Re: Gears feel rough

Post by Samuel D »

the snail wrote:use a ruler and measure from pin to pin over 12 links. A new chain measures exactly 12", when it gets to 12 + 1/8" it's worn out.

I replace my chains well before they get to 12-1/8", by which time they’re likely to have caused damage to the sprockets such that a new chain skips on them. I periodically measure the chain and replace it when 24 links exceed 12-1/16". My current cassette is on its sixth chain. The sprockets still work perfectly although the teeth are visibly narrow on the most-used sprockets in the middle of the cassette.
Fraz101
Posts: 146
Joined: 15 Feb 2018, 12:47pm

Re: Gears feel rough

Post by Fraz101 »

That’s 2 SRAM pc830 chains and none of them have lasted 200miles.

Lubricated once a week every week


I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my wobbly bog brush using hovercraft full of eels
Brucey
Posts: 43113
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Gears feel rough

Post by Brucey »

it is the cheapest SRAM chain and is known for not being as well hardened as others in the range. Even so I am surprised that it didn't last longer.

A midrange KMC chain can't possibly be any worse than that, can it? :shock:

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fraz101
Posts: 146
Joined: 15 Feb 2018, 12:47pm

Gears feel rough

Post by Fraz101 »

Brucey wrote:it is the cheapest SRAM chain and is known for not being as well hardened as others in the range. Even so I am surprised that it didn't last longer.

A midrange KMC chain can't possibly be any worse than that, can it?

cheers


What would you recommend I switch to?

It’s a 7x3 speed

Also to me it seems extremely excessive for even the cheapest sram chain to last so little time.

Could something be causing premature wear ? The freewheel was replaced 8weeks (400miles) ago.....


I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my wobbly bog brush using hovercraft full of eels
Fraz101
Posts: 146
Joined: 15 Feb 2018, 12:47pm

Re: Gears feel rough

Post by Fraz101 »

gregoryoftours wrote:I'd try kmc x8-93 next, I've found them to last well and good value.


Just ordered this one.

Let's see if it's any better.

Fingers crossed
the snail
Posts: 180
Joined: 5 Aug 2011, 3:11pm

Re: Gears feel rough

Post by the snail »

Samuel D wrote: replace it when 24 links exceed 12-1/16".

Sorry yes, 12 1/16 is what I meant
Fraz101
Posts: 146
Joined: 15 Feb 2018, 12:47pm

Re: Gears feel rough

Post by Fraz101 »

So got new chain today. Here is picture of the 2 worn chains and the new one (top)

Image

Unfortunately 7th gear has started to slip with the new chain on.

Bloody bikes.... re fitted least stretched of the 2 old chains until I get a new freewheel
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