Campagnolo 12 speed

[pwa]

For me, as a non-racer, Campag used to have two strong selling points. One was longevity. Does that still apply? The second was the appearance. Curvy polished alloy components put together as if the maker really cared. With their current top end stuff that has gone. For about ten years I had a mid 1990s Chorus rear mech in the back of my garage, unused. Occasionally I would pick it up just to admire its smooth alloy elegance. Carbon is effective in a mechanical way, but to the eye it is black plastic that looks much like any other black plastic. Made to match my bin bags. I wouldn't want it if you gave it me.

[mercalia]

maybe frame width at the back needs to be changed to say 140 or 145 to accomodate more cassette cogs rather than make them thinner and thinner. Then maybe the need for triples or twin would be gone?

[Bmblbzzz]

If Campag no longer have much OEM sales then it's probably time to think of the Big Two not Three, with Campag falling into the position of a larger version of eg Hope. Though Hope still make virtually all their own products in Yorkshire, whereas Campagnolo make a lot of stuff in Romania now. In fact it could even be said that Britain is now the home of artisan-style, passion-driven cycle technology companies; Yorkshire people are so romantic!

Romantic about stuff made in the Lancashire town of Barnoldswick?

Lancashire is it? Well it's that kind of border Pennine type area, like Nelson...

[Bmblbzzz]

maybe frame width at the back needs to be changed to say 140 or 145 to accomodate more cassette cogs rather than make them thinner and thinner. Then maybe the need for triples or twin would be gone?

142.

[reohn2]

......... I only have a couple of Shimano parts as it breaks so easily (their SPD pedals are the exception).

Any fule kno tourists are all riding Campag

[speedsixdave]

Who buys it?

Good question.

People who appreciate longevity over disposable bling, who want reliability in the parts they are funding themselves.

I suspect it is the other way round though. Campag now is surely a 'heart' purchase rather than a 'head' purchase. Potenza is more than twice the price of 105 (at CRC), Super Record is more than twice the price of Dura-ace. I've always been a Campag fan but can't justify the cost, especially if it will be obsolete in a couple of years. The launch of 12-speed has made me quite glad I went for the much cheaper 105 on my new Moulton Jubilee as I suspect Campag 11-speed parts will be hard to come by in five years' time. If, as Samuel and others have opined, Campag still looked really good, I might have delved deeper and gone for the shiny aluminium. But even the remaining shiny aluminium kit is covered in big text now.

My Mod 76 SR rear mech still works 40 years down the line and I have Campag bits of various vintage across the stable - I only have a couple of Shimano parts as it breaks so easily (their SPD pedals are the exception).

I don't think I've ever broken a Shimano part in 32 years of riding. Maybe I'm not riding hard enough!

[Brucey]

Romantic about stuff made in the Lancashire town of Barnoldswick?

aye, out of damp misery, engineering beauty can clearly emerge; they make RR aero engines there too....

cheers

hope make RR aero engines?!! #removesflatcapandscratcheshead

'there' as in Barnoldswick....

cheers

[reohn2]

......I don't think I've ever broken a Shimano part in 32 years of riding. Maybe I'm not riding hard enough!

Nor me,good solid reliable kit that doesn't cost the earth and just goes on and on.

[tatanab]

Campag now is surely a 'heart' purchase rather than a 'head' purchase.

I think there is a generation buying Campag because they could not afford it years ago. I started riding in the 1960s when Campag was to be aspired to and out of reach for a teenage schoolboy. I recall the first Japanese parts in about 1970, and with the exception of the Suntour Skitter, they were absolute rubbish. Perhaps as a consequence, my stable of machines is pretty much dripping in Campag although I am pretty much stuck on 8 speed with only one machine on 10 speed (2006). I do not buy new stuff, because my old is not worn out yet, and when I do I doubt I would go beyond 10 speed. I am not entirely stuck on Campag, I am not that blinkered. My touring bike has Campag 8 speed transmission but on Shimano XTR hubs (2003, the good ones) and with Shimano 57mm brakes in each case because they are better than Campag or Campag does not make equivalent parts.

About 15 years ago I was with a CTC touring group, all on fairly new Shimano equipment. They mocked my older Campag stuff, and not in a friendly way.

[Mick F]

I've been buying and using Campag for quite some years, but I won't be buying any more. When the present stuff wears out/fails, I won't be replacing it. It's just not worth the money any more ................... and it's ugly.

[Brucey]

About 15 years ago I was with a CTC touring group, all on fairly new Shimano equipment. They mocked my older Campag stuff, and not in a friendly way.

what a bunch of idiots.

cheers

[reohn2]

About 15 years ago I was with a CTC touring group, all on fairly new Shimano equipment. They mocked my older Campag stuff, and not in a friendly way.

what a bunch of idiots.

cheers

Quite!
And I'm betting it's not just because Tatanab was using Campag but also because there wasn't enough sprockets on the back for the snobs he encountered.

[colin54]

It's a shame Suntour didn't keep going to give both Campag and Shimano a bit of decent competition.

I had a VX GT on my old Claud Butler in the late 70's, never any bother with it and nicely designed as far as I could tell.

Various reasons for their downfall apparently, one being they sold too cheap!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SunTour

http://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.co.uk/2 ... -good.html

[Brucey]

Sun Tour made some nice equipment. But near the end {1988-1992) they lost their way in a bid to compete with shimano. Shimano had aggressively launched several beneficial innovations (which only made sense when used together in many cases) and packaged them all in competitively priced OEM groupsets that looked good and worked well. Bike manufacturers realised it was an easy sell to say 'Deore equipped' or whatever. Although the top end stuff was very good, by and large the midrange Sun Tour groupsets were as expensive as shimano ones and didn't work quite as well.

A case in point was the Sun Tour X-1 MTB groupset. It looked like it ought to have been a competitor for 3x7 LX, and was about the same cost once on a bike, but the brakes were fiddly to adjust, the mechs and chainset were bendy and cheap, the cassette hub (which used sun tour cogs only) wasn't well made and the shifting wasn't anywhere near as good as (even cheaper) shimano which had HG sprockets by that time. A few manufacturers were at least partly loyal to sun tour and offered a choice of shimano or sun tour equipped bikes; however the latter sold poorly and were largely not continued for long in any given manufacturer's line up.

Thus Sun Tour went, in just a few years, from a major player to an also-ran in terms of OEM equipment and that was most of their market gone.

cheers

[Cugel]

Suntour stuff was, in my experience, functionally superior to similar Shimano stuff of the time (late 70s through the 80s). It also had better longevity. Campagnolo of the time was already sinking towards a condition designed more to achieve lower price rather than their previously high standard of engineering and materials. Their hub components wore in no time at all.

I used Suntour VX on the touring bike and it seemed to be more resilient than the similar Shimano stuff used by others. I used Suntour Sprint and later Superbe on the racing bikes. Despite having done many, many miles, I was able to sell both Sprint and Superbe parts on ebay for a goodly sum when I eventually moved to modern bicycles to suit my new non-racing old phart status. I could do this in good conscience as everything except the rubber hoods of the Superbe brake levers looked and performed "as good as new".

When Suntour was no longer available, I gradually moved to Shimano. Some of their stuff in the 90s got quite good - particularly their hubs. Other stuff, particularly the components of the gear train, seemed rather flimsy. I went through a number of the mid-range rear mechs, chainsets and cassettes, at a rate far greater than I did with the Suntour; and despite vigilant maintenance.

More recent Shimano stuff seems a lot more resilient. The early STI levers could go sproing and become unmendable but those of the last 6-7 years seem much better. As with the Suntour, modern Shimano now seems to last tens of thousands of miles if maintained well. I notice in particular that sprockets and chain rings wear at a much lesser rate than those of the 80s and 90s, despite 10-speed et al being skinnier than 7-speed.

I sold my last Campagnolo (classic Record stuff) in the late 80s. Those I know who have Campag now seem to have no end of trouble with it, especially the gear-brake levers and BBs.

Cugel