Canti brakes/self-energising suntours

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cotswolds
Posts: 153
Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 10:47am

Canti brakes/self-energising suntours

Postby cotswolds » 13 May 2018, 6:40pm

A spring has gone in one of the rear brakes on my Dawes Horizon. I gather parts are not available so I need to replace.

Current setup is Sora brifters, Acor crosstops (with barrel adjusters) and Tektro Oryx brakes. I find the performance (with tweaking) to be acceptable but not impressive.

Initially I thought the choice was more Oryx, Tektro CR720s, or Shimano CX70s. Then I came across these https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brakes/0-suntour-selfenergising-se-cantilever-brakes-rear/ and never having heard of the concept, was intrigued. I'm a bit put off by the fact that they seem rather cheap, and it would mean different brake blocks front and rear, which offends me. How well do they work? I'm guessing if it was a good idea, they'd be more common.

My riding includes lots of long descents where I control speed with the rear brake, would they work well for that? If not the Suntours, is there anything to choose between the other options?

hayers
Posts: 90
Joined: 27 Apr 2016, 1:50pm

Re: Canti brakes/self-energising suntours

Postby hayers » 13 May 2018, 7:08pm

No experience of these, but I'd worry about the positive feedback effect causing a rear-wheel skid...

brumster
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Joined: 8 Sep 2009, 7:50pm

Re: Canti brakes/self-energising suntours

Postby brumster » 13 May 2018, 7:24pm

Thanks for the link ! ( Think I might order myself a pair ! ) - Have used these brakes on the rear of a tandem in the past, and they work well despite the slightly spongy feel at the lever( Maybe partly due to Looooong brake cable on tandem?) A brake pad upgrade would also improve performance. NB. REAR ONLY.

rjb
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Location: Somerset (originally 60/70's Plymouth)

Re: Canti brakes/self-energising suntours

Postby rjb » 13 May 2018, 8:28pm

Scott originally made these for front and back brakes. They were fiddly to set up but had superb stopping ability. Scott stopped making them and thorn then started using the suntour version on the rear of the front forks for their tandems. The introduction of V brakes left sjsc with a huge stock to shift hence the giveaway price. If you get a pair make sure you download the fitting and adjustment instructions. :wink:
At the last count:- Focus Variado, Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, 2 Dawes Kingpins, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, On One Pompino, Longstaff trike conversion on a Falcon corsa. :D

Brucey
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Re: Canti brakes/self-energising suntours

Postby Brucey » 13 May 2018, 8:59pm

it is not beyond the wit of man to make a replacement spring for an Oryx brake.

BTW if the spring merely appears to be weak, rather than has actually broken, the chances are excellent that the integral pivot bushings just need servicing. They come apart, and once cleaned and greased, a brake can return form the dead to to as-new performance.

In terms of brake power choose BR-CX-50/70, over Oryx, over CR-720. The latter doesn't respond to straddle height changes but the others do; use as low a straddle as possible for best power.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

hamster
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Joined: 2 Feb 2007, 12:42pm

Re: Canti brakes/self-energising suntours

Postby hamster » 14 May 2018, 9:31am

I've used them, also the Pedersen SE front version. They worked well on my tourer pulling a child trailer.
In the end I replaced them with Magura HS66 hydros, which were even better (and even rarer!)

fatboy
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Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 1:32pm
Location: North Hertfordshire

Re: Canti brakes/self-energising suntours

Postby fatboy » 14 May 2018, 7:40pm

I have them on my hack tourer. They are a faff to set up but are OK (not super powerful just ok). My old Horizon had a semi compact with an awful cable run. Switching to continuous cable run on top of the crossbar made Oryx better.

SE suntours are very cheap so worth a punt!
"Marriage is a wonderful invention; but then again so is the bicycle puncture repair kit." - Billy Connolly

profpointy
Posts: 433
Joined: 9 Jun 2011, 10:34pm

Re: Canti brakes/self-energising suntours

Postby profpointy » 14 May 2018, 9:36pm

I had them on my Thorn tourer . They would have been an expensive option originally,so I went for Avid shorty. Then, some while later, Thorn/ SJC were selling the Suntours off cheap. Can't say they were any great, if any, improvement, but maybe I'd not set them up quite right. In any case,the "self energising" thing was only on the rear brake - which makes very little sense as any old brake can lock up the back wheel. Bike's in bits at the moment, but I may well put the avids back

edit: perhaps I should add, they are quite atractive and well made - and can't argue with sjs now knocking them out for a fiver

hamster
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Joined: 2 Feb 2007, 12:42pm

Re: Canti brakes/self-energising suntours

Postby hamster » 14 May 2018, 10:26pm

profpointy wrote:In any case,the "self energising" thing was only on the rear brake - which makes very little sense as any old brake can lock up the back wheel.


Agreed, only really makes sense for tandems when you get some lost motion from the long cable run...alternatively fit Vs or Magura Hydros.

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gaz
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Location: Kent, car park of England

Re: Canti brakes/self-energising suntours

Postby gaz » 14 May 2018, 10:31pm

I had one on the back of the tourer whislt it was performing child lugging duties. I still have one on the back of the tandem.

IMO if there's an advantage over an oridnary canti that's been set up well it's a marginal gain.
Hand wash only. Do not iron.

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Canti brakes/self-energising suntours

Postby Brucey » 15 May 2018, 12:58am

whether there is much improvement with the SE brakes I think depends on how flexible the rear stays are; if they are flexy enough, the additional movement provided by the SE effect is lost in amongst the flexing that happens anyway.

I'd imagine that, on a stiff mounting of some kind (eg a fork or on a set of tandem stays) the effect would be much more than on a bike with skinny/flexy steel stays.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

gregoryoftours
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Joined: 22 May 2011, 7:14pm

Re: Canti brakes/self-energising suntours

Postby gregoryoftours » 15 May 2018, 8:19pm

Heh, I can't believe SJS are still trying to shift them! I bought a set from them donkeys' yonks ago (including the non SE front brake). Still haven't got around to fitting them to anything..

sjs
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Joined: 24 Jan 2010, 10:08pm
Location: Hitchin

Re: Canti brakes/self-energising suntours

Postby sjs » 20 May 2018, 1:12pm

I invested in a BR CX70 for the front of my Tricross, which came originally with CR-720 equivalents, and whose brakes had always been very poor. I was too mean to do the same for the rear brake, so when this thread pointed out the Suntours and how cheap they are I bought some. And they are a lot better than the CR-720s.Can't say if that's much to do with the SE feature though.

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John1054
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Re: Canti brakes/self-energising suntours

Postby John1054 » 20 May 2018, 2:04pm

Had Suntour SE canti's on my last tandem (Thorn Discovery), always pleased with the braking effect. SJS fitted a "converter" so that there were the same brakes front & back, front brake fitted behind the forks. They dealt well with Buttertubs pass and several other steep hills - this was loaded with panniers + dog in trailer! I assume that SJS had set them up well when we bought the tandem.

MikeDee
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Joined: 11 Dec 2014, 8:36pm

Re: Canti brakes/self-energising suntours

Postby MikeDee » 23 May 2018, 3:14pm

I had the Suntour SE and Scott SE brakes on my mountain bike back in the day. Then I read about the non linearity of SE brakes and changed them to regular cantis. I don't think I suffered lack of modulation or unintended lockup with them, but didn't notice much difference in power between them and the Diacompe 986 brakes that replaced them. Both brakes were replaced by V brakes on my bike ultimately.