Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

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Brucey
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Re: Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

Postby Brucey » 18 May 2018, 11:07pm

not everyone removes a chain for cleaning, and the QL is worn out (on the pins) when the chain is worn out too, so should be replaced, in which case a non re-usable (NRU) QL is not a big problem. Very occasionally re-usable (RU) QLs open themselves as when you remove the rear wheel or even when you are going down the road. I think the stupid chainlines that can exist on 11s setups and the like don't help.

Available chain QLs presently include;

RU Wipperman Connex, 11s, 10s
NRU SRAM Powerlock 12s, 11s, 10s, 9s, 8s
RU SRAM Powerlink 8s, 9s,
RU KMC 10s 5.88mm (fits KMC and shimano) , 10s 5.90mm ( fits 10s campag), 9s 6.6mm, 7/8s 7.1mm, 7/8s 7.3mm
NRU KMC 11s (5.5mm fits KMC and campag), 7.1mm (for X1 rohloff chain)

Clarks 9s, 7/8s, -unknown if RU or NRU.
Sun Race 10s (5.90mm), 9s (6.6mm), 7/8s (7.3mm), unknown if RU or NRU, but at a guess RU.

KMC (I think) does more models than are listed above. Their RU models have an R suffix in the model number. You can often see this on photos of the link in question.

The upshot of all this is that you can (with the exception of 12s) buy either re-usable or non-reusable QLs for every type of chain, pretty much, provided you are happy to choose different manufacturers accordingly.

BTW some folk have re-used supposedly non-resuable links (eg for chain cleaning) and I have not heard of any breakages arising, although they didn't come apart easily.

cheers
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JonMcD
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Re: Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

Postby JonMcD » 18 May 2018, 11:52pm

Brucey wrote: BTW some folk have re-used supposedly non-resuable links (eg for chain cleaning) and I have not heard of any breakages arising, although they didn't come apart easily.


I wonder if the instruction that some manufacturers provide, saying you shouldn’t re-use their quick links, is there solely to stop people transferring them from an old chain to a new chain. Is breaking then re-joining a chain for cleaning actually “re-using” the link? Or is there a fundamental physical difference between re-usable and non-re-usable links such that non-re-usable links are damaged when they are undone?

Brucey
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Re: Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

Postby Brucey » 19 May 2018, 12:38am

JonMcD wrote:.... Is breaking then re-joining a chain for cleaning actually “re-using” the link?


yes, that is what is meant by re-usable. You should never use an old QL on a second new chain; the pins will be worn and it will (slowly) wear your sprockets and chainrings because that link will most closely resemble a chain as worn as the old one was.

... Or is there a fundamental physical difference between re-usable and non-re-usable links such that non-re-usable links are damaged when they are undone?


yes there is a fundamental difference; you need much higher force with the NRU type, both during installation and removal. In SRAM links you can get either type (as per my list above) in many cases and they are of course different to one another.

cheers
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foxyrider
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Re: Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

Postby foxyrider » 19 May 2018, 9:06am

I have a KMC QL removal tool which works brilliantly. No need for a fitting tool - push together and stamp on pedals and hey presto, job done.

In the past i've used the pliers method but it can be quite messy and a tight fit can need a fair bit of jiggling, the QL pliers are just in and squeeze - job done.

The chain holder (bit of spoke etc) does work but OTOH I fit chains untensioned theses days so it's of no real use.
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

Airsporter1st
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Re: Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

Postby Airsporter1st » 19 May 2018, 10:33am

My own view is that if I have a proper tool for the job (and I usually do), then I will use it. I don't see any reason not to apply a bit of finesse when I can. I think that, sooner or later, 'stamping' on the pedals to engage a quicklink will result in a bruised ankle and/or damaged link or worse.

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foxyrider
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Re: Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

Postby foxyrider » 19 May 2018, 12:27pm

Airsporter1st wrote:My own view is that if I have a proper tool for the job (and I usually do), then I will use it. I don't see any reason not to apply a bit of finesse when I can. I think that, sooner or later, 'stamping' on the pedals to engage a quicklink will result in a bruised ankle and/or damaged link or worse.

When I said stamp I meant it metaphorically - I actually sit on the bike and put some weight on the pedal.
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

PH
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Re: Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

Postby PH » 19 May 2018, 1:24pm

Mick F wrote:^^^^
+1
You shouldn't need a tool. A clean link will undo without one....
...Press the roller down with a thin screwdriver.

In the world of Mick F - is a screwdriver not a tool?
My rule for screwdrivers is that they're not used for anything else.

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Mick F
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Re: Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

Postby Mick F » 19 May 2018, 1:51pm

I don't use anything other than my fingers. No need to. They come apart and join simply.

I was illustrating a good system as described on here by CJ I think. I know it works because I experimented.

As it happens, I use two on Moulton. I need a longer chain so have a QL then a single inner link and then another QL.
Mercian makes do with one.

I use KMC Missing Links.
Mick F. Cornwall

keyboardmonkey
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Re: Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

Postby keyboardmonkey » 19 May 2018, 2:17pm

This thread prompted me to replace my old chain (and cassette and link). The KMC reusable missing link easily came off using just my hands, but I did use this tool’s dual function to rejoin the chain:

IMG_0946.JPG
BBB missing link dual function tool

I couldn’t fasten the link manually, so on balance I think it’s probably worth having this gadget in my tool box. It provided a very positive and satisfying click.

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Mick F
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Re: Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

Postby Mick F » 19 May 2018, 2:23pm

To rejoin KMC MLs, I fit them together and waggle them side-to-side whilst pulling. They click in nicely.
Never needed a tool to rejoin.
Mick F. Cornwall

Brucey
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Re: Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

Postby Brucey » 19 May 2018, 2:44pm

Mick F wrote:To rejoin KMC MLs, I fit them together and waggle them side-to-side whilst pulling. They click in nicely.
Never needed a tool to rejoin.


reusable QL of course. IIRC you have also had one come apart as you were riding?

cheers
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Mick F
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Re: Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

Postby Mick F » 19 May 2018, 4:47pm

Brucey wrote:
Mick F wrote:To rejoin KMC MLs, I fit them together and waggle them side-to-side whilst pulling. They click in nicely.
Never needed a tool to rejoin.


reusable QL of course. IIRC you have also had one come apart as you were riding?
No idea why my chain came off, but maybe the KMC ML broke, rather than came apart. I was "riding" yes, but freewheeling down a long hill and I only noticed when I came to pedal up the next hill.
I eventually found the chain half way down the hill.

The chain wasn't damaged and is still in use, it was the ML that failed and we have no idea why.
Never happened before or since.
Mick F. Cornwall

PT1029
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Re: Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

Postby PT1029 » 20 May 2018, 6:24am

..or more mysteriously, on last Sunday's ride (ahead of me so didn't actually see it happen).
Another rider pedalling up hill (probably changing/just changed down a gear or few) and the chain fell off in the road.
He picked it up, looked at the ends, the missing link (looked like a KMC link) had opened itself, no damage visible, so reconnected the chain using the missing link and carried on seemingly none the worse for it.
Bike was cheapish (7s screw on freewheel) Decathlon. Any offers on what/how might have taken place?
As I had my white track mitts on, I gave instructions to the non-technical owner how/where to thread the chain, which was an interesting experience!
Last edited by Graham on 20 May 2018, 8:07am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: clarification

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foxyrider
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Re: Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

Postby foxyrider » 20 May 2018, 8:42am

PT1029 wrote:..or more mysteriously, on last Sunday's ride (ahead of me so didn't actually see it happen).
Another rider pedalling up hill (probably changing/just changed down a gear or few) and the chain fell off in the road.
He picked it up, looked at the ends, the missing link (looked like a KMC link) had opened itself, no damage visible, so reconnected the chain using the missing link and carried on seemingly none the worse for it.
Bike was cheapish (7s screw on freewheel) Decathlon. Any offers on what/how might have taken place?
As I had my white track mitts on, I gave instructions to the non-technical owner how/where to thread the chain, which was an interesting experience!


A panic change resulting in an extreme chain angle and maybe chain a bit short too. They will by default always pull to the locked position so extreme twisting is the only possibility if the link was undamaged.
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

Brucey
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Re: Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

Postby Brucey » 20 May 2018, 11:41am

I am far from convinced that 'extreme twisting is the only possibility'.

If you have ever looked at a slow-motion film of shifting, it isn't unusual to see the chain thrashing about like a wild thing on the lower or both runs. In particular you can get 'waves' running down the length of the chain, and in the same way as a small wave can wash a long way up a beach (far above the apparent waterline) the energy in any wave can be concentrated in a small part of the medium so it can produce a more violent effect than you might expect (think of a whiplash; a bit like that).

This would be exactly the sort of thing that could cause an easily opened QL to come apart. Upthread it was asked 'what is the point of non-reusable QLs?'. The point is that they don't come apart like this; it might be rare but it does happen and would be quite intolerable in (say) a racing context.

cheers
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