Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

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Mick F
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Re: Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

Postby Mick F » 29 May 2018, 5:12pm

Yep.
KMC Missing Links
Usually chuck 'em out when the chain gets chucked out at somewhere between 4,000 and 6,000miles.
My chains come off for a good cleaning every few hundred miles, so the KMC MLs must come off and go back on a dozen times perhaps. Don't see why they can't be taken off and on as often as you want.

Main issue with them, is that the pins are ever so slightly less diameter than a normal chain pin. This is obviously to make them easier to fit and remove. Trouble is, as the pin is smaller, they wear the chain holes as the chain goes round and round.
Mick F. Cornwall

Airsporter1st
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Re: Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

Postby Airsporter1st » 29 May 2018, 5:17pm

Brucey wrote:
Airsporter1st wrote:
geocycle wrote:Does anyone reuse quick links and if so which ones?


At risk of sounding facetious; I reuse reusable ones.


on the same chain, yes, on a new chain you should use a new QL; they wear too.

cheers


So far I have only used new QLs with new chains, but only in my ignorance! Of course, now that you say it, it makes perfect sense.

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Re: Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

Postby Brucey » 29 May 2018, 5:42pm

you can normally see the wear on the pins of a used QL, where the half-bushings bear against it.

cheers
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MikeDee
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Re: Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

Postby MikeDee » 29 May 2018, 8:30pm

Airsporter1st wrote:
MikeDee wrote:
Airsporter1st wrote:
In other words, installation error?


Not installation error. Tell me how does one even install the link improperly, plus ride it for at least a hundred miles? Not clip in one side? Try that and see how far you can ride before noticing that something is amiss.

Believe what you want but these links are shoddy quality, especially the ones made in China.


Maybe not clip it in properly and then stamp on the pedals to lock it, creating a bending moment on the pin, under the stress of which it finally breaks after 100 miles?

TBH, I've not been back in cycling long enough to be dogmatic either way. However, I do use quick links, install them with a degree of finesse using the right tool and so far, they look to be fit for purpose.

I seriously don't believe we can use the blanket term 'Made in China' to automatically denote poor quality any longer. To do so is to stick one's head in the sand, as was the case with 'Made in Japan' as applied to Motorbikes and Cars in the 60's and we all know where that led where British bike and car makers were concerned.

Yes, theres a lot of crap coming out of China, but there are also a lot of Western companies with manufacturing facilities there, who are maintaining a standard. (I'm not saying thats right, especially where workers' conditions are concerned; but it is true.)


I bought some of mine on Amazon. They came in a plastic bag instead of a bubble wrapped card. I'm not the only one to have trouble with them https://www.amazon.com/KMC-Missing-10-s ... filter-bar

These reviews are from the same vendor I ordered from. It was generally thought that the ones on a bubble wrapped card were of higher quality.

I had another KMC link that I caught before it failed. It had chipped edges on the flange. I have another one on my bike now where the flange is too thick so that it sticks out so much that hits the adjacent cog. I have to face this one outwards to make it work properly.

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Re: Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

Postby Airsporter1st » 29 May 2018, 8:42pm

Is it possible that you have bought some counterfeit ones, I wonder? Did you notice the images on the reviews page?

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Graham
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Re: Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

Postby Graham » 29 May 2018, 9:08pm

Using the Park tool for the first time on a tight 10-speed quicklink :-

Both removal and reconnection were trivial using it.

Now I wonder why I left it so long before buying one. All the frustration and stress that could have been avoided . . . . :roll:

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Re: Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

Postby Brucey » 29 May 2018, 9:27pm

Airsporter1st wrote:Is it possible that you have bought some counterfeit ones, I wonder? Did you notice the images on the reviews page?


I wondered that too. But Mike's failed link shows a 'genuine looking' one not an obvious fake one. Thus it is either a genuine one or an improved fake.

The 'factory reject' hypothesis is an interesting one; if a (poorly tolerance) QL isn't quite wide enough, the flange on the end of the pin will see an unbearable load when the chain is flexed (eg at extreme chainlines) and that may cause the flange to fail.

cheers
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Re: Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

Postby MikeDee » 29 May 2018, 10:18pm

Airsporter1st wrote:Is it possible that you have bought some counterfeit ones, I wonder? Did you notice the images on the reviews page?


I only have one left in the plastic bag, but it looks like the ones on the card that I also have. Never saw one with a dimpled pin end like the one shown in the review.

Counterfeit? Possibly but where is the money in counterfeiting such a cheap item plus you need specialized machinery to fabricate?

I probably got a bad batch and in the future, I if I ever buy KMC, I'll get the ones on a card from a reputable vendor.

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RickH
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Re: Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

Postby RickH » 30 May 2018, 12:33am

I thought I had already commented but can't find it quickly just now (unless it was in a different topic).

The only chain failure I have ever had in over 40 years of cycling was the QL of the OEM KMC chain (the only non SRAM bit of the drivetrain - costcutting?) on the Kona that I bought early last year after about 500 miles. One of the sideplates had broken, fortunately I noticed having cycled to the station & boarded my train (one advantage of the hangers on Virgin Voyagers as I probably wouldnt have spotted it if I'd not had to hang the bike up) so I headed to the nearest bike shop to get it sorted as soon as I got off at my destination. I've no idea if it was a fitting problem, a weakness in the KMC QL design/manufacture or "just one of those things". The replacement SRAM chain was still going strong when I swapped it out after a further 1500 miles (and, having cleaned & lubed it, will keep it to swap back in again at some point).

On topic: I bought a Park QL remover/fitter & doing the swap over of SRAM chains was trivially easy even with the bike up on a stand. Previously I've usually used WIppermann QLs on my previous bike & liked those for tool-less ease of fitting & removal. The chains were either Wippemann or KMC. The Park tool wasn't that much more than others where I was ordering (I think it was Tredz as they'd sent me a money off voucher & their prices were good on a couple of other bits I wanted).

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Re: Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

Postby pete75 » 30 May 2018, 8:55am

In his book Everything you need to know about Bicycle Chains Johan Bornman says

"For flexible, bushingless chains, a symmetrical two-piece link was designed. Each piece has one
grooved pin that’s permanently and rigidly fixed to its plate. On each plate at the pin position
opposite the fixed pin, an hourglass-shaped hole is cut out. This hourglass-shaped aperture has a
special stepped groove on the outside of the plate with a narrowing that locks the opposite pin in
place once it has slid into position. The movements required to lock the two plates in place is first
towards each other (compress the link) and then diagonally across.
Opening requires the same sequence, in other words, axial compression first and then sliding open. If
the two plates are not pushed together first, they cannot slide apart. This acts as a safety feature since
these two movements happening in the right order whilst in use are very unlikely and the link is thus
reasonably foolproof. The downside of the double-compression safety feature is that dirt in the link
prevents the plates moving towards each other and a dirty link is difficult to remove, tempting users to
force it open, typically using a special chain link tool. It would be more prudent to jiggle the master
link section of the chain a little bit in order to disperse loose dirt and then attempt to squeeze it
together for opening.
Installing and removing this type of link is a skill that requires practice and understanding. Many
people are impatient and simply buy the above-mentioned link tool that looks like a pair of pliers,
which forces the link open and destroys its safety notch. The link tool should only be used if you first
compress the link before opening or want to discard the link in anyway."

Since I read that I've squeezed the side plates together with a pair of snipe nosed pliers and found the links separate easily.

Bornman also says this about chain cleaning - sounds familiar?
"The best method is to remove the chain and immerse it in a bottle of soapy degreaser. Two liter
cool drink bottles and 500ml of paraffin works well. Close the bottle and agitate it. If you think the
chain is clean, fish it out with a piece of wire and give it a second cleaning with some water-based
degreaser. Now flush it with water until the run-off runs clear. Refit it and oil it by dripping a drop
of oil on every second link, smack bang onto the roller. Don’t bother trying to oil the sideplates,
they’ll get coated with oil soon enough. Decant and re-use the paraffin, discarding only the bit at
the bottom together with the grit that collected there. "
Last edited by pete75 on 30 May 2018, 9:01am, edited 1 time in total.

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Mick F
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Re: Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

Postby Mick F » 30 May 2018, 9:00am

Thanks for that.

https://www.parktool.com/product/master ... gory=Chain
How does thing compress the sides of the links?

My KMC ML's click in and out, and to get them on and off, you have to squeeze the sides at the same time as pulling or pushing them. They're not a sliding fit ................ as per the above post.
Mick F. Cornwall

pete75
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Re: Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

Postby pete75 » 30 May 2018, 9:11am

Mick F wrote:Thanks for that.

https://www.parktool.com/product/master ... gory=Chain
How does thing compress the sides of the links?

My KMC ML's click in and out, and to get them on and off, you have to squeeze the sides at the same time as pulling or pushing them. They're not a sliding fit ................ as per the above post.


I don't think it does it's a " link tool that looks like a pair of pliers, which forces the link open and destroys its safety notch."
Until I read that Bornman book I used similar - well a pound shop pair of snipe nosed pliers ground to match chain rollers.

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NUKe
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Re: Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

Postby NUKe » 30 May 2018, 9:11am

:D
Graham wrote:Using the Park tool for the first time on a tight 10-speed quicklink :-

Both removal and reconnection were trivial using it.

Now I wonder why I left it so long before buying one. All the frustration and stress that could have been avoided . . . . :roll:
I thought exactly the same
NUKe
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Mick F
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Re: Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

Postby Mick F » 30 May 2018, 10:54am

.............. but how does it work?
I can't see how it can compress the sides to unlatch them.

You can't just push the link due to it being locked. If you can, your link must be worn.
Mick F. Cornwall

Brucey
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Re: Quick Link (removal) tool - experiences / recs ?

Postby Brucey » 30 May 2018, 11:21am

AIUI QL locking works in two different ways depending on the link design; either

a) there is a recess in the side plate so that a small lateral movement/clearance allows the link to be assembled/disassembled or

b) the narrowest part of the pin is slightly wider than the narrowest part of the slot, so that it has to be forced past. NRU models tend to be like this, I think.

I've seen both types. I think the latter is becoming more commonplace since tolerances are getting tighter on chains; often there simply isn't enough lateral clearance to allow a) to work. Note that if you have an a) type design, there may or may not be a ramp/radius that allows simple longitudinal load to pop the link open. I think there usually is such a ramp/radius, but I cannot say that I have examined every such link to be sure of this.

cheers
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