Sturmey Archer damage?

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s.bike
Posts: 3
Joined: 23 May 2018, 9:22pm

Sturmey Archer damage?

Postby s.bike » 23 May 2018, 9:40pm

Hi all,

There are a few marks or cracks on the hub shell and one on the flange,
i am unsure if they are too big for the hub to be reused
please can someone advise?

20180523_210713_resized.jpg
20180523_210701_resized.jpg
20180523_210643_resized.jpg


if needed i can try to take some better photos

cheers,

alexnharvey
Posts: 1346
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:39am

Re: Sturmey Archer damage?

Postby alexnharvey » 24 May 2018, 6:59pm

I think better photos would help.

Brucey
Posts: 41358
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Sturmey Archer damage?

Postby Brucey » 24 May 2018, 7:09pm

yup....
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s.bike
Posts: 3
Joined: 23 May 2018, 9:22pm

Re: Sturmey Archer damage?

Postby s.bike » 25 May 2018, 6:38pm

Sorry my camera is rubbish, hopefully these are better
S A (5).JPG
S A (5).JPG (23.13 KiB) Viewed 655 times

S A (4).JPG
S A (4).JPG (23.04 KiB) Viewed 655 times

S A (3).JPG
S A (3).JPG (29.5 KiB) Viewed 655 times

S A (2).JPG
S A (2).JPG (20.11 KiB) Viewed 655 times

S A (1).JPG
S A (1).JPG (20.52 KiB) Viewed 655 times

JakobW
Posts: 415
Joined: 9 Jun 2014, 1:26pm
Location: The glorious West Midlands

Re: Sturmey Archer damage?

Postby JakobW » 25 May 2018, 6:45pm

Still not massively clear, but they just look like surface corrosion to me; I'd possibly see if I could polish them off with wire wool or something and wouldn't worry too much. I am going to predict that Brucey will suggest running some Waxoyl into the spoke holes to prevent corrosion there, and possibly coating the shell with the same... :wink:

Brucey
Posts: 41358
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Sturmey Archer damage?

Postby Brucey » 25 May 2018, 9:31pm

just a bit rusty I'd say, but one cannot be 100% sure from those photos. Provided it is not a very rare model, SA hubshells are not difficult to get hold of (in far better condition than that), nor indeed are whole hubs, so are fairly easily substituted, before you bother to build a wheel.

BTW have you checked that

a) the innards are in good shape ? (does not bode well if the outsides are like that, normally the oil leaking out of a well-maintained hub prevents that kind of corrosion)
b) that the hubshell has the right number of holes in it anyway?

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

steve browne
Posts: 111
Joined: 8 Oct 2009, 12:30pm

Re: Sturmey Archer damage?

Postby steve browne » 26 May 2018, 7:58am

IMG_0573.jpg
If the hub shell is alloy then I think the cracks may be serious.
IMG_0576 (1).jpg

The planet cage pawls punched this hole in my 5 speed alloy shell.

Brucey
Posts: 41358
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Sturmey Archer damage?

Postby Brucey » 26 May 2018, 10:24am

It hadn't occurred to me that it might be an alloy shell, but now I look again it appears that it is so. I agree if there are cracks in an aluminium alloy hubshell, the hubshell is basically scrap.

An alloy SA hubshell ought to be easy to clean up and indeed can usually be polished to a good shine. Whilst it is dirty you cannot easily say if there is damage or not.

I have seen aluminium hubshells fail like Steve's; what appears to happen is that something breaks inside, and if a lump of it is carried round and jams between the hubshell and one of the planet gears, it can punch a hole through the hubshell. It is collateral damage, if you like. IME the gear would have to slip more than a few times before the low gear pawls would be likely to break, but I'd be interested to hear what actually happened.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

jimlews
Posts: 584
Joined: 11 Jun 2015, 8:36pm
Location: Not the end of the world.

Re: Sturmey Archer damage?

Postby jimlews » 26 May 2018, 11:05am

In those '70s alloy hubshells the tip of the low gear pawls act on the inside of the alloy shell, with the inevitable result as seen on Steve's picture.
It is all the more surprising that SA made this mistake in the 70s/80s, because they had done exactly the same thing in their 1940s FM gear.

A more reliable alloy five speed can be built into the earlier FW,AW or AM shell which has a steel L/H ball cup and steel low gear ratchet track. However, I've heard mutterings about the spoke flanges of these and I used to use little 4ba spoke washers to beef them up a bit.

Brucey
Posts: 41358
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Sturmey Archer damage?

Postby Brucey » 26 May 2018, 11:47am

you mean the one-piece alloy shell in this parts listing?

https://hadland.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/s52.pdf

I have never had one of these to look at. If the arrangement is like some FM variants then it is indeed not a good idea!

I have used a home-brewed 5s (modified FW, with LH pushrod, inside a steel shell) for about 60000 miles and the only thing that has really gone wrong is that I broke the rear axle (quite recently). The S5 and S5/2 internals can easily be converted to use a LH pushrod and this makes them more reliable IMHO. However they appear not to be as well made as the FW and in particular the gear train seems noisier in operation.

These internals fit into some (but not all) steel AW hubshells of 1960s/1970s vintage, which are often lighter than the alloy shells with a steel insert at the LH end, and are certainly stronger. The feature that most often makes the 5s internals clash is the upstand inside the LH end of the hubshell, which can interfere with the gear 2/4 sun locking parts.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

jimlews
Posts: 584
Joined: 11 Jun 2015, 8:36pm
Location: Not the end of the world.

Re: Sturmey Archer damage?

Postby jimlews » 26 May 2018, 12:03pm

Brucey,

The alloy shell in Steve's picture is No.54 HSA 337 in your link. To be avoided at all costs, in my opinion.

If you would like one of these to examine, Brucey, PM me your address and I'll gladly send you one FOC.

It's such a pity SA thus shot themselves in the foot again because HSA 337 is in other respects a very nice shell. The spoke flanges are very substantial.

EDIT.

I agree with you in respect of FWs vs S5. But probably for slightly different reasons. I don't find the top gear in the five speed particularly useful.

FW: -33.3%, -21.1%, DD, +26.6%

S5: -33.3%, -21.1%, DD, +26.6%, +50%

In my opinion, the smaller 'steps' are more useful in the higher ratios.

peetee
Posts: 2595
Joined: 4 May 2010, 10:20pm
Location: Cornwall

Re: Sturmey Archer damage?

Postby peetee » 1 Jun 2018, 9:59pm

S. bike has asked me to submit these better quality photos of the damage
strmy 1.jpg
strmy 2.jpg
Winter had arrived in the land of Kernow. Along with it came wet roads and cool winds.
“Oh, my wheels and coupling rods!” Peetee exclaimed.

Brucey
Posts: 41358
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Sturmey Archer damage?

Postby Brucey » 1 Jun 2018, 10:12pm

that shell has had it. Once for the scrap I'm afraid.

The innards may transplant into a carefully chosen steel (eg AW) shell, as per comments upthread.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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MikewsMITH2
Posts: 1804
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Location: POOLE Dorset

Re: Sturmey Archer damage?

Postby MikewsMITH2 » 2 Jun 2018, 9:47pm

Image

1951 FM shell
S.O.S - Save Our Steel!
1971 Raleigh Mercury
2010 Condor Fratello
1980 Peugeot Tandem
1989 MBK Aventure MTB
195? Viking Severn Valley
1951 Raleigh Lenton Sports
See them here http://tinyurl.com/Mikewsmiths-Bikes

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Sturmey Archer damage?

Postby Brucey » 2 Jun 2018, 10:03pm

is that an old aluminium shell? They were not terribly strong, being made to about the same dimensions as the steel shells.... Add tight stainless steel spokes and some road salt and the outcome is inevitable.

cheers
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