Campag' Centaur 10 speed Ergo's.

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Mick F
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Re: Campag' Centaur 10 speed Ergo's.

Post by Mick F »

Brucey wrote:Campag shifters and cassettes are designed to work (as well as possible) with one another but if there is a slightly different spacing, it won't work quite as well, under duress, but it will probably work well enough.
As I said, same Ergos, same rear mech, different spacing. Same lockring, same hub.

Campag Centaur/Veloce 10sp 12-29 has different spacers in the mix.
Campag Centaur 10sp 12-30 has uniform spacers.
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Brucey
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Re: Campag' Centaur 10 speed Ergo's.

Post by Brucey »

different ramps, different RM?
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Mick F
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Re: Campag' Centaur 10 speed Ergo's.

Post by Mick F »

Different ramps - probably.
Same rear mech.
These taken from the 2014 spare parts.

Centaur1.jpg
Centaur2.jpg
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AndyA
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Re: Campag' Centaur 10 speed Ergo's.

Post by AndyA »

Brucey wrote:scrub the above; I've just done some experiments with a campag 10s shifter and a shimano 11s mech and I see what you mean about overshifting (i.e. the mech moves too far) in the lower gears.

I measured the following mech movements (low to high gears, i.e. rightwards)
1-2; 5.1mm
2-3 ; 4.4mm
3-4; 4.9mm
4-5; 4.5mm
5-6; 4.05mm
6-7; 4.3mm
7-8; 3.7mm
8-9; 4.2mm
9-10; 3.8mm

An important measurement is the 2-9 cable pull and it should be ~28mm (7x4). I measured 29.8mm.

Unfortunately the simple cable mount adjustments that I tried didn't make enough difference. In addition, in the lowest gears the cable pull direction is constrained; if it is too far out the mech won't move properly.

More thinking required!

cheers


Great work! Going by your numbers a thicker spacer 3-4 and a thinner spacer 7-8 should do the trick. I'll give it a try when I've next got a free couple of hours...
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cycleruk
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Re: Campag' Centaur 10 speed Ergo's.

Post by cycleruk »

I have found (on the net) new Chorus and a Record 10x replacements. (£££££££ :( )
Both are similar rounded top to my Centaur and also QS designated.
Any thoughts and will they match QS / Centaur group ?
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Re: Campag' Centaur 10 speed Ergo's.

Post by Brucey »

IIRC when they introduced QS they altered the shift ratio of the FD and they made the old mechs backwardly compatible with the new shifters by giving the option of fitting a 'widget' to the FD arm. The 'widget' is listed in the spare parts PDF in the years following QS introduction, along with a compatibility chart. They altered the front shifting after that but I think (do check to be sure) they retained the 'new' FD shift ratio.

hth

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Mick F
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Re: Campag' Centaur 10 speed Ergo's.

Post by Mick F »

QS was indeed the front mech pivot dimensions/mechanical efficiency, but the QS LH Ergo wasn't any different to the non-QS.
Here's 2007 Chorus QS and 2006 Chorus non-QS.
Identical except for the bodies ........ and that would only be the writing on them.
Chorus QS.jpg
Chorus NonQS.jpg
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Brucey
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Re: Campag' Centaur 10 speed Ergo's.

Post by Brucey »

not quite identical; one contains EC-RE234 and the other contains EC-RE134. Dunno if that makes any real difference or not, mind...

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Mick F
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Re: Campag' Centaur 10 speed Ergo's.

Post by Mick F »

The two ratchets work together on the same shaft, so the 234/134 must be mechanically the same, as the 314 ratchet is the same on both.
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philvantwo
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Re: Campag' Centaur 10 speed Ergo's.

Post by philvantwo »

I had a 9 speed Centaur groupset on my Brian Rourke timetrialling bike, did a couple of 10's and 25's but couldn't get on with the thumb downshifters so never used that bike again. Tidying the loft out the other week and found it at the back under a sheet. Getting the new 105 groupset for it shortly.
Is there much demand for 2nd hand centaur stuff? It's done less than 100 miles!
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RickH
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Re: Campag' Centaur 10 speed Ergo's.

Post by RickH »

I had a triple setup Centaur ergos & Comp triple FD new in 2008, both left ergo & FD were QS. I replaced the ergos with the newer shape (large horns as per higher end ones) Centaur ones in 2010 (i think, might have been 2011), non QS. I found I needed to run the cable for the FD under the pip it is supposed to go over to get reliable shifting across all 3 rings. That suggests the newer LH ergo pulls less cable than the older one.

Side note: the new shifters look like they have metal rachet wheels (at least they are silvery) where the old one were obviously plastic. The newer LH ergo also has a lot more clicks.
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Mick F
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Re: Campag' Centaur 10 speed Ergo's.

Post by Mick F »

I don't know anything much about the newer stuff.
My 2006 Chorus 10sp Ergos have 9 clicks on both Ergos. The two Ergos are identical except for being mirror images.
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Brucey
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Re: Campag' Centaur 10 speed Ergo's.

Post by Brucey »

I'm a bit fuzzy on the newer stuff too, but at some point they abandoned triple chainsets and may have made the ergos in those years more specific to a double chainset, i.e. with less total cable pull in the LH shifter, to give a lighter shift action. When they reintroduced the triple chainset, I think they also introduced a specific triple left shifter.

However others report that 'old' (i.e. pre QS) triple FDs work OK with the left ergos that were meant only for doubles, I think. Perhaps the 'other side of the pip' cable routing renders the shift ratio of a QS triple FD more like that of a pre-QS triple FD..?

cheers
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cycleruk
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Re: Campag' Centaur 10 speed Ergo's.

Post by cycleruk »

Thank's all for the input.
My Centaur is 10 speed double compact (50/34 chainset) with a QS FD. I have had it since 2008 so I suppose 10 years isn't too bad.
This is on my summer bike and is the only one with Campagnolo. My other bikes have Shimano groupsets.
I still haven't made my mind up on which way to go. :roll:

4 choices at the moment :-
(1) https://www.evanscycles.com/campagnolo- ... very-modal
(2) https://www.allterraincycles.co.uk/camp ... rgo-levers
(3) https://www.allterraincycles.co.uk/camp ... rgo-levers
(4) Unlikely, but ditch the Campag' altogether and go Shimano.

P.S.
Well my decision has just been amended. I emailed Allterrain Cycles about the Chorus & Record.
Reply -
"I do apologise but this item is now discontinued and we cannot source further stock, my sincerest apologies it was showing on our website.
If you could confirm the model of Chorus Ergo levers you are looking for, I would happily speak to our Campagnolo importers to see if it is something we could source for you."

They have got to be joking. :x

Going against Brucey's thoughts up-thread I have ordered the Centaur Ultrashift from Evans. We shall see.
You'll never know if you don't try it.
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cycleruk
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Re: Campag' Centaur 10 speed Ergo's.

Post by cycleruk »

Update on progress so far.
I have procured a pair of Centaur Carbon 10 Speed Ultra Shift Ergo's to replace my Centaur 10x QS units :-
https://www.evanscycles.com/campagnolo- ... y-EV335007
(Big thanks to BrandlingBicycle for the heads-up)

Fitted them today and up to now things have not progressed smoothly. Yes they fit and yes they work.
First problem is they come with "Torx" headed screws for the bar fitting. I do have Torx bits but with all the attachments they are awkward to use especially with the hoods still in place. Without the hoods then a lot easier.
What I have done is swap the Torx "nuts" with the old Allan key "nuts" of the old Centaur. A lot easier to access now with an Allan key.
Second problem, and lots of huffing and cursing, is fitting the cable wires through the grooves of the Ergos. Hidden out of site are very small metal rings. The cable outers butt up against the back of these rings and the wire has to go through these.
My wires wouldn't go through and in the back of my mind I seem to remember reading about Campag' "Ultra Shift" needing special cables.
These little rings, and they are little, pushed out with a bit of force and this allowed my wire to go through.
Even without the rings it takes some patience to complete.
Missing out these metal rings may allow the guides to wear out quicker so will have to wait and see.

* * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * ** *** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * **
On inspection of the old QS units, yes the "ratchet" is plastic as can be seen in the photos. (click to enlarge.)
Centaur 1 (Medium).JPG

Centaur 2 (Medium).JPG

This is the right hand Ergo and the front ratchet was covered in coagulated grease.
Just maybe if I had known this and cleaned it out then it may have cured the original problem.
This ratchet comes into use when the thumb button is depressed. As the button is pressed a tooth goes into the teeth and only allows one click at a time. So to move to a smaller sprockets you have to do numerous clicks as needed.
Behind there is visible another "ratchet" and this I think is the one for moving to larger sprockets. You can move 3 sprockets at a time. The cable end goes in the hole at the bottom of the ratchet.

The left Ergo.
Centaur 4 (Medium).JPG

Similar to the right but a lot less teeth on the Ratchet.
This gives 5 clicks to go from small ring to big ring. I suppose it, in theory, allows for either a double triple chainset.
Going from big to small ring is only 3 clicks so that is "quick-shift".
* * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * ** *** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * **
The new Ultrashift Centaur units are different in their shifting. With one push the right hand is 3 clicks small sprocket to large and 5 clicks large to small. One push on the left lever has 5 clicks up and 5 clicks back. Again will probably do a triple as well as a double. Obviously you can just do one click at a time for one cog on both levers.
At the moment I have the cable over the pip on the front mech' but I may try it under to see what difference that makes.
Finally the ratchet gears on the Ultrashift are metal so should have a good life span. Can you get spares for repair. :roll:
The plastic gears on the 2008 QS Centaur have lasted 10 years of fair weather riding.
You'll never know if you don't try it.
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