What sealed hub bearings?

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fossala
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What sealed hub bearings?

Postby fossala » 23 Jun 2018, 2:51pm

I need some 6001 2rs bearings. I normally buy loose bearings as I use shimano hubs but this is for some recumbent tricycle hubs so don't have that option. I've searched for some on simplybearings but I'm overwhelmed by choice ranging from £2.69 to £55.24 per bearing. https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/advan ... s=6001+2rs

Does anyone here have input what would be best or most suitable?

tatanab
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Re: What sealed hub bearings?

Postby tatanab » 23 Jun 2018, 3:07pm

You don't need high temperature or ceramic, so that's the top end of the price range out of the way. I usually buy mid range ones made by SKF for no other reason than it is a brand I recognise.

fastpedaller
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Re: What sealed hub bearings?

Postby fastpedaller » 23 Jun 2018, 3:09pm

It appears unwise to use ones with C3 clearance, as these are for high speed application ...... Although I'm 'Fastpedaller' the title doesn't mean my bike goes fast :D

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Mick F
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Re: What sealed hub bearings?

Postby Mick F » 23 Jun 2018, 3:48pm

These are the ones I've earmarked for my Miche hubs when required.
I took the number off the actual bearings in the hubs.
https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p6183 ... _info.html
Mick F. Cornwall

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fossala
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Re: What sealed hub bearings?

Postby fossala » 23 Jun 2018, 3:58pm

Mick F wrote:These are the ones I've earmarked for my Miche hubs when required.
I took the number off the actual bearings in the hubs.
https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p6183 ... _info.html

I was looking at them and these lower friction ones https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p7521 ... _info.html I guess lower friction would mean worse seals or maybe they're just engineered better?

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Mick F
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Re: What sealed hub bearings?

Postby Mick F » 23 Jun 2018, 4:17pm

Lower friction?

I actually don't know, but some time back I gave up with the Campag Chorus rear hub on my Mercian as I'd suffered defects over the years ............ long story irrelevant to this thread.

My Moulton came with Miche Racing Box hubs and I was very impressed, so replaced my rear Campag hub on Mercian with a Miche. Similar flange dimensions.
As they come in pairs, I had to buy 36h hubs, so I still have the front one unused and brand new leaving the front Campag Chorus in place.

The Moulton - as I'm sure you know - has undergone some modifications in the wheel department, so I have both the original Miche hubs out.

I took the brand new front hub apart not long after buying the pair for Mercian, so I know the SKS part number.
Meanwhile, the two original (and now not used) Moulton hubs have a had a good looking-at, and I can confirm the front and rears have the same bearings.

Friction-wise, the rear wheel on Mercian is free - very free - and will spin the same if not better than the Campag Chorus cup and cone hub did.
Very very very pleased with the Miche hubs.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/miche-racing-bo ... 7993380010
The logos are plastic stuck-on, and peel off easily, so mine has gone. :D
Screen Shot 2018-06-23 at 16.19.39.jpg
Mick F. Cornwall

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fossala
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Re: What sealed hub bearings?

Postby fossala » 23 Jun 2018, 4:50pm

Mick F wrote:Lower friction?

I actually don't know, but some time back I gave up with the Campag Chorus rear hub on my Mercian as I'd suffered defects over the years ............ long story irrelevant to this thread.

My Moulton came with Miche Racing Box hubs and I was very impressed, so replaced my rear Campag hub on Mercian with a Miche. Similar flange dimensions.
As they come in pairs, I had to buy 36h hubs, so I still have the front one unused and brand new leaving the front Campag Chorus in place.

The Moulton - as I'm sure you know - has undergone some modifications in the wheel department, so I have both the original Miche hubs out.

I took the brand new front hub apart not long after buying the pair for Mercian, so I know the SKS part number.
Meanwhile, the two original (and now not used) Moulton hubs have a had a good looking-at, and I can confirm the front and rears have the same bearings.

Friction-wise, the rear wheel on Mercian is free - very free - and will spin the same if not better than the Campag Chorus cup and cone hub did.
Very very very pleased with the Miche hubs.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/miche-racing-bo ... 7993380010
The logos are plastic stuck-on, and peel off easily, so mine has gone. :D
Screen Shot 2018-06-23 at 16.19.39.jpg

I had the same hubs on my TSR and a buddy has them on his cannondale, both bearings seamed to work well enough. I'll save my money and get the cheaper of the two. Cheers for the help.

rjb
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Re: What sealed hub bearings?

Postby rjb » 23 Jun 2018, 7:32pm

i dont think you would notice any difference in use between ones from china at 99p a pair on fleabay to those which cost considerably more. But i would carefully pry the seal off and put more grease in then replace the seal no matter where the bearings came from. :wink:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-pieces-Bal ... Swbw1aKw4Z
:wink:
At the last count:- Focus Variado, Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, 2 Dawes Kingpins, Raleigh 20, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, On One Pompino, Longstaff trike conversion on a Falcon corsa. :D

Brucey
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Re: What sealed hub bearings?

Postby Brucey » 23 Jun 2018, 8:41pm

a big problem with sealed bearings is that they can suffer uncontrolled variations in preload due to the tolerances on the parts. Such bearings are made to a tolerance (of a few um that you can't easily even measure) so that once they are in a housing of the specified size, there is a light preload on all the balls.

If you don't specify the tolerance, you could get anything, but you will probably get something 'middling' whether that is what you need or not.

The thing is that you have no way of knowing what (or even if, accurately) housing's tolerance actually was. I would say that at least half of the failed cartridge bearings I see have been installed wrongly (in relation to their tolerances). for example the bearing can feel as rough as anything, you knock it out (with some difficulty) and then it mysteriously feels OK instead. That is a sure-fire sign that the tolerance is wrong. When you install a new bearing you can't easily tell if the preload is too much because the bearing surfaces are smooth and the bearing will feel OK even if it is at its service load limit already.

In many hubs the loads on the bearing are low until the QR is tightened or the track nuts are done up. If you tighten them onto fat washers instead and the hub mysteriously feels different then you have a problem in this respect. Old bearings (that are slightly rough) will show most effect here; again new bearings might not show a big change even though the loads on them are horrendous.

The other killer of cartridge bearings is water ingress. As mentioned above most bearings benefit from having the seals popped out and some more, better grease applied. You can buy bearings that are meant for low-speed applications (like bicycles) but most are not like this; they have a reduced fill of grease in them, and the grease is the wrong type for low speed use. These bearings are meant to spin at several thousand rpm in dry-ish, warm conditions, not a few hundred rpm in winter clart.

Bearings vary in their quality so that cheap bearings (no name or a name you have never heard of) have more variable tolerances, less effective seals, and less good grease in them. Note that unless the seal lips are wetted with lubricant all the time then the sealing will be ineffective and the seal lips will wear. Very cheap 2RS bearings do not really have contact seals anyway; there is meant to be a tiny gap and this is where the crud gets in.

So overall I'd sooner have a basic -2RS (or -LLU) bearing from a known manufacturer than some fancy version. Forget low friction bearings, ceramic bearings, and all manner of other stuff like that; they offer marginal benefits and only under conditions that do not (or at least should not) prevail in bicycles.

If you want to buy a bearing that is better specified for bicycle use then buy something like an 'enduro' bearing. These have a better grease fill and full contact seals in most cases. In common sizes these are not expensive (eg from ''kinetic bearings') and you might pay about £3 more for a pair of these than the least expensive you can buy; cheap for some peace of mind.

A Brucey top-tip; if you remove the inner seals from the bearings and pretty much flood the housing with semi fluid grease (SFG) then you have greatly increased the chances of the seals remaining wetted and that the bearings will last a reasonably long time even in foul-weather use. Down the line you may spare yourself the cost/hassle of a new pair of bearings by replacing the (now worn) seals on the bike with those you removed earlier.

The only time this is not such a smart idea is when there is a brake (eg drum or disc) and there is a chance of seepage and brake contamination. In such cases it normally still works OK if you just make sure that the seal at the other end of the housing is less good; any seepage will then occur at the other end, away from the brake.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

alexnharvey
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Re: What sealed hub bearings?

Postby alexnharvey » 16 Dec 2018, 6:10pm

Are full complement bearings a good choice for hubs?

Brucey
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Re: What sealed hub bearings?

Postby Brucey » 16 Dec 2018, 6:14pm

I think they are, (and after all that is what a cup and cone bearing is, at heart) but for some reason (probably merely that they cost more than commoditised bearings) they rarely appear in cartridge form fitted to hubs. Old WTB hubs and some current surly models are exceptions to this.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

alexnharvey
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Re: What sealed hub bearings?

Postby alexnharvey » 9 Feb 2019, 10:41am

Last week I fitted enduro max full complement bearings to my rear hub as the original bearings felt a little rough. On removal the NDS had some rust evident and very slight roughness whilst the drive side remained smooth.

I also waxed the chain (KMC B1S). Although the wheel feels smooth spinning in the hand, since both changes I perceive I'm a making greater effort and believe I can sense slight drag from the rear hub. The bike is single speed and the route is a consistent commute. There's no difference in elapsed time, just s sense of working slightly harder and coasting a minute fraction less. If course it is possibly all placebo or windspeed!

Today I should finally be in a position to fit my newly built xt hubbed wheel with cup and cone bearings. Then I'll have another point of comparison although it's likely I'll fit a different tyre to avoid switching them over, so it won't be very fair due to changing another variable.
Last edited by alexnharvey on 9 Feb 2019, 1:15pm, edited 1 time in total.

londonbikerider
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Re: What sealed hub bearings?

Postby londonbikerider » 9 Feb 2019, 12:50pm

I have always used original SKF ones with good results and little to worry.