Gearing query for hill climbing

[newbuild100]

Folks, I think i may know the answer to this but can someone confirm for me . . . .

Probably three times in the last few years, I have ascended Honister, Newland and Whinlatter passes in the Lakes in one ride (ie, steep!).

The first twice i got up all the above relatively easy, on an old ish alloy bike, with a front 28 tooth chainring and a 26 tooth rear.

Yesterday, i tried the same hills on a new carbon bike with a 34 chainring and a 32 rear sprocket. I struggled like hell. Ouch indeed !!

Given that both the above ratios give about 28" (looking at gear tables/charts), can I presume that yesterdays struggle was due to the newer bike having less efficient hill climbing (front to back) gearing and my skinny legs simply couldnt push those gears (even on a far lighter bike) ???

Thanks all

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
Same pedals. and tyres.
A lot of this I reckon comes down to comfort, all the way to your toes, your body loves turning off when it feels pain.
Expectations are a horrible thing.

[newbuild100]

Both bikes are the same in the way they are set up etc etc

[pwa]

The gearing sounds similar, so it's not that. Are you sure the brakes are not rubbing the rims when you get out of the saddle? If you are using wheels that are less stiff they might deform under effort.

[whoof]

Then the reason lies with you and not the bike. You either we're on a bad day or you weren't as fit generally as you were the previous times.

[mig]

hot yesterday and i think most likely that the wind was blowing in an unusual direction.

were you dehydrated? are the cranks longer on the new bike?

[Ellieb]

Not sure what you mean by less efficient gearing. If the ratio is approximately the same then whatever struggle you had, had nothing to do with the gearing

[foxyrider]

It does sound like physical rather than mechanical issue. It was horrid for riding up hills yesterday - I struggled more than I would expect (although all the camping gear had banged the weight up 10 or so kg!)

generally I climb a gear higher on my CF than I do on the similarly geared metal bikes, 34x25 rather than 34x27 - sometimes higher again. That leaves me an extra gear to tackle the really steep stuff - there's a bit of road I sometimes use which has a few metres of 48%, i'm sure there are more with similar grades on bends.

On average the other bikes are 3kg heavier with the same power of engine, has to make a difference.

[peetee]

Riding position can have a lot to do with it. Replicating an exact position can be very difficult. Even on one bike moving forward and back on the saddle can vary the proportion of work your quads and glutes do. Ask more of a lesser used muscle group and discomfort quickly follows.

[Brucey]

Folks, I think i may know the answer to this but can someone confirm for me . . . .

Probably three times in the last few years, I have ascended Honister, Newland and Whinlatter passes in the Lakes in one ride (ie, steep!).

The first twice i got up all the above relatively easy, on an old ish alloy bike, with a front 28 tooth chainring and a 26 tooth rear.

Yesterday, i tried the same hills on a new carbon bike with a 34 chainring and a 32 rear sprocket. I struggled like hell. Ouch indeed !!

Given that both the above ratios give about 28" (looking at gear tables/charts), can I presume that yesterdays struggle was due to the newer bike having less efficient hill climbing (front to back) gearing and my skinny legs simply couldnt push those gears (even on a far lighter bike) ???

Thanks all

Well it might indeed be a problem with the weather or your fitness or something. IIRC Honister is steep; Newlands and Whinlatters are more draggy that steep but if the wind is going the wrong way it can have a lot more effect.

Then again it may indeed be a problem with the bike. You don't say so, but my guess is that the 28/26 ratio came on a bike with a triple (3x7 or 3x8?) and the 34/32 ratio came on a bike with a compact double (2x10 or 2x11?).

If so, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to work out that the chainline would likely be worse with the compact double. Gawd knows what the lateral forces will do to the (flimsy) sprockets and potentially flexy chainstays on a CF bike.

cheers

[531colin]

Riding position can have a lot to do with it. Replicating an exact position can be very difficult. Even on one bike moving forward and back on the saddle can vary the proportion of work your quads and glutes do. Ask more of a lesser used muscle group and discomfort quickly follows.

I know where you're coming from, but I would put it slightly differently.
Riding a bike, glutes. pull the femur down, and your quads. straighten the knee, theres not much choice in that.
However, something as "minor" as changing the saddle angle can change how far forward you tilt your pelvis. Your glutes have quite a large range of movement over which they operate, and changing your pelvic tilt will alter which part of the whole range of contraction of your glutes you use to power the bike, and thats a difference I can feel. Saddle adjustment back and forwards seems to have a similar effect on which part of the quads' range I use.

[newbuild100]

Thanks for all your answers.
The older alloy bike was made up with a "bike fit" a few years ago, I've copied those measurements to the new carbon bike .(And Brucey, youre right about the triple etc). It's about a year since I did those particular climbs and whilst I'm obviously a year older ( in my 50's), I've more miles In my legs this year and I was on my carbon at the weekend.
To that end, and with the same (ish) 28" gear ratio, in theory, the carbon bike should climb better. As you have rightly said, lots of other things play a part here. Wind, hear etc etc.

However, it's obviously possible to gain the same gear ratio on different bikes using different front and rear sprockets/chainring.
For example, to gain the same gear ratio, it's possible to use a 8 tooth chainring (!) with a 23 tooth rear (on one bike) OR a 14 tooth front with a 40 tooth rear (on another bike).
Whilst the above is only theoretical and probably not practical, which of them would climb a hill better, (the 8/23 combo or the 14/40) ?
Or neither !!!!????

Cheers

[Ellieb]

I'll turn the question back on you. Why do you think that two different drivetrains with the same gear ratio would climb any differently?

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
Remove one tooth from the rear and then have a another go.
Bet your faster, if I want to go faster I just use a one gear higher everwhere and pedal.
Years ago when I was into running I would force my pace to be longer by matching the pavement paving slabs.

[Peter W]

Sounds as though you were a disciple of Percy Cerutty Mr. Ankles. Especially with regard to his long stride mantra.

It also applies to walking speed, which is a confounded problem to apply with any degree of gusto, on crowded town centre streets. The dithering,ambling crowds of shopping zombies quite knock the wind out of one's sails. Mind you, that's nothing as compared to Supermarket aisles, which one charges up scattering waddling old dears into the fruit and vegetables (or whatever) who take ten steps rocking from side to side to move a mere one foot forward! Throw your hips forward, I always resist the urge to screech at them!

I wonder if most regular cyclists are simply incompatible with general slowness in any shape or form? Would it be an acquired characteristic, or are we cyclists because we were born to be impatient?